JB bore paste diagnoses

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kenny s
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by kenny s » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:30 am

WE all have this problem once in a while.
If you can sing the theme song from Paladin Have gun will travel, .....ALL of it...then it's your age and eyes.

try a bigger target and a wider opening on the Hadley. If you don't have a Hadley. BUY ONE!

things to look for:
your patch. I run my 40 70 SS Shiloh .400 patches through a .400 sizer to smooth the patch and
FLATTEN THE BASE. a twist on the end will cause a flyer. go slow and it works. .400 is bore diameter

wipe more between shots. I used to wipe one wet one dry, and now I use two wet and one dry.
Don't let the barrel get too hot. ....shoot slower.

find out the best 'hold'. I found that pulling back on the rifle and tightening the hold just before the shot cut my groups in half.
Go watch 'Winchester 73' the shooting match. Then repeat the hold position ALL the time. different hold, different group.

set the bullet with a slight push on the factory crimp die. use the same crimp all the time. I find if I SET the die, it can be different.
feel the PP bullet and you'll find one will be loose even though you used the same die setting.
by using 'feel' on the die, you will be more consistent on the grip of the bullet in the case. A loose bullet is a FLYER. all the time.

check compression...use a comp. die. I'm sure you do already...

and if any of this works...LET ME KNOW! I STILL GET A FLYER ONCE IN A WHILE.

luck Ken

mdeland
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by mdeland » Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:15 pm

I'd try a good soak with Gunzilla for a few days and if that didn't work I'd give the bore a lead slug lapping with 400 grit which will do nothing but clean, even and polish.
If not experienced at slug lapping perhaps a few fire lap bullets with 4oo grit will clean things up. I've used the firing lapping for both rifle and revolver and have yet to see it hurt a barrel only improve them if accomplished using the LBT method.
You may want to test it on an old rifle you are not particularly in love with first to see if it improves.

Timberlake
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by Timberlake » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:01 pm

I just recently lost a good friend, aged 95, who was more than just aquainted to the Brownells. He was also an accomplished shooter. Claimed the bore cleaner in question here contained ground glass and was (is) superior for removing copper wash in barrels.

He and I shot many a round in the dog fields out west and used more than a couple of little jars of the stuff. Never used it on my BPCR barrels due to lack of copper wash.
"I heartily accept the motto, 'That government is best which governs least'; and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically... 'That government is best which governs not at all'."

Thoreau

mdeland
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by mdeland » Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:09 pm

I remember reading in I think Ned Roberts book about the old chunk gun shooters developing a glaze from muzzle loading patched bullets which I think were predominately patched with paper , some through false muzzles using paper strips in cross patch use. Any way, after a few thousand rounds they would develop a glass and accuracy would go South. If they agitated the bore ( yes they actually did use urine at times) accuracy could be restored. Lapping serves to agitate a bore .
I'm wondering if this kind of scenario is occurring?

Timberlake
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by Timberlake » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:40 am

Good response Mike. My old friend's father (Hubie - born in 99 and died in 99) called that shooting "slick".

However, said nothing about piss soaked patches nor anything about piss poor barrels. Had some comments regarding piss poor shooters tho'..
"I heartily accept the motto, 'That government is best which governs least'; and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically... 'That government is best which governs not at all'."

Thoreau

Timberlake
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by Timberlake » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:54 am

In my last post, I did not mean to intone that anyone connected to this thread was a piss poor shooter.
"I heartily accept the motto, 'That government is best which governs least'; and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically... 'That government is best which governs not at all'."

Thoreau

Kurt
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by Kurt » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:56 am

:D Oh George--George--George :D How you been anyway ?
Kurt
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery Winston Churchill

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kenny s
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by kenny s » Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:13 pm

Hey Timberlake,
After looking at some of my last targets...I think your 'piss poor' remark may have been right on target.
(pun intended)
Ken

VectorMan
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by VectorMan » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:30 am

BFD wrote:Yes, that's what I am loading now. Will try it in Lodi in 10ish days.
I’m curious As to what happened at Lodi with this?
"keep adding powder til it bloodies your nose and blacks your eyes, then back it off bout 5 grains."

BFD
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by BFD » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:47 am

VectorMan wrote:
BFD wrote:Yes, that's what I am loading now. Will try it in Lodi in 10ish days.
I’m curious As to what happened at Lodi with this?

Nothing good. Nothing good at all.

I did manage to hit one thing this weekend - a deer, with my truck, on the way home. I've probably had better weekends.

VectorMan
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by VectorMan » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:43 pm

BFD wrote:
VectorMan wrote:
BFD wrote:Yes, that's what I am loading now. Will try it in Lodi in 10ish days.
I’m curious As to what happened at Lodi with this?

Nothing good. Nothing good at all.

I did manage to hit one thing this weekend - a deer, with my truck, on the way home. I've probably had better weekends.
So it’s not a certain powder lot number that’s causing it.
"keep adding powder til it bloodies your nose and blacks your eyes, then back it off bout 5 grains."

semtav
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by semtav » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:49 pm

Did you start over with a new mix of lead to make sure you didn't have some contamination in it.

VectorMan
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by VectorMan » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:23 pm

BFD wrote:
I might not be a great shot, but I don't suddenly miss the paper without realizing it. At least I think I don't. 2 ft fliers at 200 yards is suspicious.

Maybe it’s time for an eye exam?
"keep adding powder til it bloodies your nose and blacks your eyes, then back it off bout 5 grains."

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Distant Thunder
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by Distant Thunder » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:09 am

While I can't say I totally disagree with some of the comments made by others shooters this past weekend, who like me have enjoyed a higher level of success while Brent is struggling, I do consider him a good friend and would like to see him get past this problem and return to his former self as a serious competitor, eventually. :wink:

With that in mind I think it is time to separate the shooter/rifles issue and test the two or three well away from each other. I did offer to let him shoot my Hepburn and I would not let just anyone do so, especially someone who has had two rifles in his possession go to shit all of a sudden like. I don't see any evidence of a contagion here, but I am not anxious to make any such discovery using my rifle. I have also offered to shoot his ammo in my rifle, probably not a good idea either for the same reasons.

Maybe the safest test would be to have someone shoot one of Brent's rifle with Brent's ammo at a time when said Guinea pig is not going to be touching his own rifles anytime soon after.

The point being I think it is time to first narrow this problem down to either the rifles/ammo or the shooter. How to safely do that without risking damage to any other shooters or rifles is the only question. Then after it is, if it is, determined that the shooter is not the problem we can proceed with a plan to determine whether it is the ammo or the rifles. Again we would have to be careful not to spread the cause to any other shooters or rifles.

Right now we have one shooter who is affected and actually three of that shooter's rifles. While it is difficult to see a common element with just a glance there would likely be only one cause. If we could find the common element is the ONE shooter and 3 rifles we might move closer to finding the cause.

Lets take these 4 elements and break them down in a basic list:

Shooters affected Rifles affected

(1) Brent + (1) .45-70 high wall = shoots for shit
(1) Brent + (1) .45-70 1877 Sharps = shoots for shit
(1) Brent + (1) custom muzzle loader = shoots for shit

Still difficut to see one thing that is commom here. If only we could find something that is common we might be able to take steps to correct the problem. I'm at a total loss. I'd really like to help my friend get back on top of his game, but I just don't know how to do that.
If only I could think of a way to point out where the problem might be, something clever and subtle.

I remember back in the late 90s as I was just starting to climb my way toward the top of the score sheet at Lodi, I was making pretty good progress. Then in September 2000 I slipped from regularly finishing in the top ten to finishing in 24th place. This was at a time when we had between 50 and 60 shooters on a regular basis. It took me two years to find the problem and take corrective action.

It wasn't that my barrel was worn out, or that I got a bad batch of powder, or that my bullet was too pointed. Want to know what it was? I'll tell you.

Somewhere between May of 2000 and September of that year my eyes took a dump. I didn't notice it at first, but I just wasn't seeing things like I did before then.

Once I realized that I wasn't able to see my front sight quite as well as before it still took me another year to get the glasses I needed to get me back on track. Then in September 2002 armed with my new glasses specially made for shooting I went from finishing 14th or worse to a 2nd place finish, my first finish in the top three.

For me the glasses helped, but I eventually reached a point that glasses could not keep up with my eyes aging. That lead to my making custom inserts, inserts that have allowed me to remain competitive for the past dozen or so years. My eyes have now leveled off and I am seeing very well with the aid of glasses and special inserts.

I think that if I found myself in Brent's shoes I'd have my eyes checked and get some glasses made that would bring the front sight into focus like it was when I was younger. Don't tell Brent about this suggestion that I and others have made, I'm having way too much fun kicking his butt on a regular basis. At least don't tell him just yet. :lol:

DT

(Just trying to help, Brent!)
Jim Kluskens
aka Distant Thunder

What is life but to be sport for our spotters and laugh at them in our turn? :lol:

Each shooter must make their own choice, whether to soar on the winds like shreds of paper or to wallow in grease like a big lump!

beltfed
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by beltfed » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:04 pm

With what Jim has just posted.
I, too have in last couple years had eye sight issues. Almost "suddenly" A very large, diffuse, wide "windshield wiper" floater swings back
and forth from "the top of my eyeball" and besides having to "dodge" the big floater, having focus on front sight issues, whatever aperture I use.
As said, this happened rather quickly. I have been to the eye Dr. and he is continuing to check me for glaucoma, and Mac.Degen,etc every 6 mo.

Now,meanwhile, have gone to use of a scope on most of my rifles.

Brent, can you mount a scope on one or the other of the 45-70s and then shoot from a bench to see if that helps sort out possible eye issues vs the mechanics and loads,etc.
May be a quick way to check out your eyesight as possible issue.
beltfed/arnie

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