Suggestion for a 40-65 mold

[Trigger1212]

I'm now officially a paid-in-full, card carrying member of the My 1877 is Going Into Production club and as such I need to get the rest of my gear in order and one of them is to get a mold. This will be my first foray into the 40-65 caliber so would love some insight from you experienced 40-65ers!

I hope to hunt with this rig some day but for now I'm just going to pursue silly-wette, and hopefully a target match or two if I get the opportunity. I'm looking to start with a GG mold. I will probably play with paper down the road but just going for simple right now, GG and blow tube and away we go. Not arguing that PP wouldn't be the cat's meow, just want to start simple and I've got all the lube equipment already.

Specs on the rifle:
- 1877 Shiloh
- 32" bbl
- 1-14" ROT, I'm not in the camp that you can over stabilize a bullet as long as it will take the rifling and it give's flexibility for heavier bullets, possible long range work.
- 7 degree lead
- 40-65, new annealed Starline brass
- I've got 1,000 lbs of pure lead and tin bars so I can mix what ever alloy is thought best.
- Currently have a fresh case of Swill 1.5F and CCI BR2 primers
- Have .030 walters fiber wads, from the threads lately it looks like I should lay in a supply of .060" poly wads?

1. What mold/bullet would you suggest for GG and the silly-wette game?
2. What weight would you suggest? I know that can be varied by the alloy, but in general what range weight would you suggest?

Thanks for the input Guys!

Wade

[BFD]

I can't recommend a grease groove bullet, but if you want a paper patched version, let me know. For that twist, there is a good one out there.

[beltfed]

Wade,
Does that Shiloh have a typical GG chamber with freebore?
In that case you want to go with a tapered / dual diameter bullet so you can seat it out for more powder capacity.
Front bands slip up on the lands while having the base band(s) of the bullet in the case/freebore.
Both my 40-65 GG and PP bullets are designed that way. I can load FF WW cases with 75 gr of Swiss 1.5/0.060 LDPE wad.
leaving about 0.125" of bullet in case.
beltfed/arnie

[desert deuce]

A local shooter prefers the 40-65 for silhouette and mid range.
He has won many high level silhouette matches and set national records in mid range. Shoots this load in both types of matches.
It is a 1-16 twist, (It may be a Badger Barrel) he uses the Saeco #740 bullet cast 1-20 alloy, Federal GM150M Primer, pan lube SPG or home lube-guard lube. Wipes with 50/50 anti-freeze and water on arsenal patches.
Starts with 55.0 grains VOLUME Swiss 1.5 and works up one grain at a time until it puts one bullet on top of the other at Turkeys.
Dont recall a wad column or if he uses wads. Fireforms but does not size brass. Think he uses Starline brass. Slip fits bullets.
May use enough taper crimp to keep bullet from falling out. Will ask more tomorrow when I see him.

[gunlaker]

Your Shiloh will love the Saeco #740 bullet cast in 20:1. I shoot that bullet with slip fit and neck tension ( both work quite well ) in two Shiloh rifles. One in 1:16 twist and one in 1:14 twist. Accuracy is excellent with either for midrange and silhouette. I use 58gr of Swiss 1.5 which takes quite a lot of compression.

At distances greater than 300m I use the BACO 409400M4 cast in 16:1, again slip fit, or 0.001" neck tension. 62gr of Swiss 1.5. This load holds vertical better for me at the longer distances, and on the ram line hits the rams quite a bit harder than the Saeco bullet will.

For brass just form and cut down .45-70 brass. Leave them a little long as they will shrink for the first two firings.

You will enjoy that rifle I'm sure. My .40-65's are like black powder laser beams.

Chris.

[Maj. Forrest Smith]

Here are several that could have the potential of working well in your rifle.

[Maj. Forrest Smith]

And one other, though they are not making this mold any longer.

[Trigger1212]

Guys,

Thanks for all the quick responses, keep 'em coming!

1. BFD - While I'm not looking to START with PP, I will probably go there at some point, I will PM you for your info, unless you would like to share it here?

2. Arnie - Good question, I am ASSUMING it is there standard GG chamber, all I asked for was a 7 deg lead, so I assume they will give me a standard chamber, Lucinda did not ask what type of bullet I was going to be shooting but I did tell her I would be shooting Silhouette with it. So with that, give me the details on your super secret sauce bullet!

3. DD, I see that Gunlaker chimed in right after you also recommending the #740, was he your guy or just a coincidence?

4. GunLaker, appreciate the input, clarification please, you recommend the #740 for mid-range and silhouette work but in the next sentence you state that beyond 300m you use a different bullet. Are you essentially using the #740 as a "chicken/turkey" load then going heavier or are you saying that the #740 will work fine across the course BUT, if you want OPTIMAL performance across the course you may want to switch to the other bullet for the distant/heavier critters?

5. Maj. Forrest, that has a nice ring to it, what branch? I was a Marine, Ssgt, 7.5 years, Semper Fi! Again, great input, but I can't read that tiny sheet, still a relative Pup, but did have to get glasses about 6-7 years ago. Can I trouble you to email me the picture so I can blow it up and read it? I'll PM you my email.

Cheers!

Wade

[gunlaker]

Wade, I'm using the #740 for silhouette on chickens and pigs. I might use it on turkeys next year, but am currently using the BACO 409400M4 for turkeys and rams. I once lost a ram with the Saeco #740 bullet. It seems to barely push them off the rail, whereas my load with the 409400M bullet seems to hit them as hard as some people's .45-70 loads. Both loads are very accurate at the ram line though.

For midrange BPTR I'm using the #740 for the 200 & 300 yard stage, and the 409400M for the 500 or 600 yard stages. If I keep shooting the .40-65 in midrange, I will likely switch to a heavier money bullet in the 1:14 twist rifle.

I've played a lot with these rifles using Goex Express FFFg, OE 1.5, and Swiss 1.5. All shot very well, but the Swiss loads always do just a little better and the fouling just a little bit lighter.

I've been using BR2 primers, and sometimes Federal LP Match. I have some Remington brass that was cut with shallow primer pockets so it only accepts pistol primers.

Chris.

[gunlaker]

Oh, I notice that you asked about wads. I only use 0.060" poly wads. In my .45's I've tried various wad types, but I don't think I've ever tried anything other than poly in the .40-65's. For no reason other than they just work well in every application I've ever tried.

Chris.

[John Bly]

I shoot a Brooks Creedmoor style with a reduced front band that weighs 416 grains in 25/1. I shoot Swiss 1 1/2 and in resized WW cases I use 61 grains and in Starline brass I shoot 56 grains. I shoot rams with the 61 grain load. For a chicken bullet I shoot the Saeco 640 with 53 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 in Starline brass. I shoot the Brooks bullet in mid-range target matches.
This past weekend I went to a shoot and I had run out of bullets. It had just been too hot this summer to make any more bullets. I had some Saeco 740's on hand so I loaded enough to shoot pigs. I could only get 50 grains of 1 1/2 Swiss under the bullet without increasing compression. I did not test the load at all on paper just loaded them and went to the match. I missed one pig but it was totally my fault. My group on the pigs well within acceptable standards.

[Woody]

I have only ever had one .40 cal mould for silhouette. It's a Brooks 400 grain Turkey Killer. It just works. My best is a 35 of 40 at Friendship with it. It's still the range record. YRMV.

Woody

[desert deuce]

No Wade, I was not referring to Gunlaker, that Denizen of the frozen lands north of the Canadian Border. However, his counsel is always worthy. We live on the not so frozen Mexican Border where any mid day temperature below 60F can be considered the beginning of winter.
Talked to the shooter in question today. He uses a 60 thou Walters Veg Fiber Wad and taper crimps just enough to keep the bullet from falling out and seats the bullet out far enough to engage the rifling when chambering the round. He recalls that with this current lot of Swiss 1.5 his compression is running in the .085" area. He reaffirmed this is the load he has been and will be again shooting at Raton in Mid-range next month for the National Championship.

[gunlaker]

Wade I'm already way past Zack's winter here . The fellow Zack is talking about does quite well with that particular rifle and load. Definitely worth looking into .

I haven't got the 7 degree leade in any of my Shiloh rifles but all of mine have been very easy to develop accurate loads for. The .40-65 may be the easiest, but perhaps just because of the low recoil.

The only bullet I've tried that mine did not like was the Hoch .40 cal silhouette bullet.

Chris.

[TexasMac]

My Shiloh .40-65 with 14.5:1 twist really likes the BACO Jim409400M4 (16/1 lead/tin) with 60gr of Swiss 1.5 & 0.070" of compression & loaded to contact the leade. Following are the chamber & throat specs:
Rim seat depth (aka rim recess): 0.070”
Rim seat dia: 0.607”
Headspace (aka rimspace): 0.071”
Chamber base (web) dia. (in front of case rim): 0.502”
Chamber length (from case rim to case mouth): 2.040”
Overall case length: 2.111”
Chamber mouth diameter: 0.4325”
Chamber transition length: 0.013”
Chamber transition angle: 45.0 degrees
Freebore length: 0.025”
Freebore diameter: 0.4090”
Leade length: 0.075”
Leade angle: 2.5 degrees
Bore (land) diameter: 0.4005”
Groove diameter: 0.4070”
Land height” 0.0033”

Wayne