daul diameter ppb's & the 40 2-5/8" bottleneck

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ridgerunner
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Re: daul diameter ppb's & the 40 2-5/8" bottleneck

Post by ridgerunner » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:35 pm

Would someone post a picture of a patched dual diameter bullet? I have a 40-70 sharps straight and am interested in trying them. I have already tried a tapered bullet adjustable mold made by a gentleman in Wyoming I think. It did pretty good but looks like dual diameter is the way to go.Thanks in advance.

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ridgerunner
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Re: daul diameter ppb's & the 40 2-5/8" bottleneck

Post by ridgerunner » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:35 pm

Would someone post a picture of a patched dual diameter bullet? I have a 40-70 sharps straight and am interested in trying them. I have already tried a tapered bullet adjustable mold made by a gentleman in Wyoming I think. It did pretty good but looks like dual diameter is the way to go.Thanks in advance.

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Re: daul diameter ppb's & the 40 2-5/8" bottleneck

Post by bruce m » Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:07 pm

firefighter,
good to see you are enjoying the journey, and more so reaping the rewards from your experience.
your bullets are following the basic rule of accuracy which is to fill any space available in order to minimize alloy movement in the bumpup process..
it becomes as clear as chrystal when you do it, with both pp and greasers.
i wonder if your adding of wads is improving accuracy due to increasind compression, or improving gas seal, or both, particularly over the chamber/bore transition.
i remember a number of us promoting dual diameter pp bullets in greaser chambers, only to be answered by the sound of crickets chirping, or nay saying.
now it seems that they are on a roll.
congratulations.
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus

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Distant Thunder
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Re: daul diameter ppb's & the 40 2-5/8" bottleneck

Post by Distant Thunder » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:49 pm

ridgerunner,

How's this?
2-DIAMETER PPB-SMALL.jpg
These are two different .40 caliber 2-D PPB designed for two different rifles. The one on the left was designed for the typical Browning .40-65 chamber in a 16-twist. The other two were designed for my .40-65 with basically a Ron Long chamber and a 18-twist. Both are very accurate in the rifles they were designed for.
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Jim Kluskens
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A new age of tyranny dawns in the United States! If anyone is brave enough to say so they're destroyed by the BIG Tech branch of the Federal Government for spreading lies! "Reeducation" camps to follow!

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Re: daul diameter ppb's & the 40 2-5/8" bottleneck

Post by Distant Thunder » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:53 pm

bruce,

All I can tell you is that timing is everything! :roll:
It's good they are catching on finally. There are a couple guys around here that are pushing them pretty hard! :lol:
Jim Kluskens
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A new age of tyranny dawns in the United States! If anyone is brave enough to say so they're destroyed by the BIG Tech branch of the Federal Government for spreading lies! "Reeducation" camps to follow!

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Re: daul diameter ppb's & the 40 2-5/8" bottleneck

Post by bruce m » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:05 pm

jim,
when i started raving on about them, i thought i was the only one.
then i discovered that arnie had been on a paralell course , and you started singing their virtues.
it is good that more guys are making their lives easier now.
very few have reported problems with them, and they are the ones who have not thought them through, as in designing the bullet to fit, as firefighter did, and you have demonstrated.
to get best results from greasers also requires design for fit.
it just requires a bit of thought, and maybe that it the primary hurdle.
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus

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Distant Thunder
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Re: daul diameter ppb's & the 40 2-5/8" bottleneck

Post by Distant Thunder » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:57 pm

bruce,

The one size fits all thinking probably comes from the factory ammo loaded with jacketed bullets that everybody could buy at the hardware store years ago. Anybody who has tried to get a high level of accuracy from any lead bullet, grease groove or paper patch, understands what you said about filling all available space with the bullet. It seems a bit more critical with paper patch and grease groove seem a bit more forgiving it that regard.

I don't remember where or when I first heard of 2-diameter PPB. I know the idea has been used successfully with grease groove bullets and I know that early on I played with different kinds of tapered PPB to achieve the same principle, but that left too much bullet unsupported before firing. The idea became a sharp, clear picture to me when Arnie approached me with the design for his .40-65 and I thought immediately it had potential for my freebored .40-65. It sure has worked out well for Arnie and me. I am happy to see it working for other too and to see the increase in the number of people that want to try them.

What the best way is to explain to people the importance of designing them to fit THEIR chamber is, I surely don't know. I have tried and will continue to try to get that across to anyone who will listen. Some people only hear what they want to hear and they overlook a key part as a result.
Jim Kluskens
aka Distant Thunder

A new age of tyranny dawns in the United States! If anyone is brave enough to say so they're destroyed by the BIG Tech branch of the Federal Government for spreading lies! "Reeducation" camps to follow!

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Re: daul diameter ppb's & the 40 2-5/8" bottleneck

Post by bruce m » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:32 pm

jim,
you nailed it.
many people think there is a magic load that just works, and ask for that or try to pass it on.
but you have to work up the load for your indidvidal gun.
the same mentality applies to bullets, but it needs a little more thought application, but not much.
it is just understanding a concept, rather than knowing a formula, then the rest will take care of itself.
the concept will create the correct formulae.
and as you say, you need to include all factors.
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus

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ridgerunner
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Re: daul diameter ppb's & the 40 2-5/8" bottleneck

Post by ridgerunner » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:25 pm

Thanks Distant thunder for the pics. After patch is applied what is the diameter of the lower portion of bullet? Is it close to .408?

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Distant Thunder
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Re: daul diameter ppb's & the 40 2-5/8" bottleneck

Post by Distant Thunder » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:13 pm

rr,

The freebore in that rifle won't accept anything over .409" diameter and that is what the base band patches to by design. That is a nice fit in my unsized brass also. The bore diameter forward part patches to .400", a snug fit into the lead. That section is only about .150" long so it just gets to the the lands, maybe. So much of the patched diameter is sitting snuggly in the freebore that the alignment is as good as it gets with just that.
Jim Kluskens
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A new age of tyranny dawns in the United States! If anyone is brave enough to say so they're destroyed by the BIG Tech branch of the Federal Government for spreading lies! "Reeducation" camps to follow!

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ridgerunner
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Re: daul diameter ppb's & the 40 2-5/8" bottleneck

Post by ridgerunner » Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:08 pm

PM me with mold makers name I think I would like to purchase a mold

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Re: daul diameter ppb's & the 40 2-5/8" bottleneck

Post by semtav » Sun May 02, 2021 8:54 pm

firefighter1990 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:16 pm

I first acquired a few tapered bullets from a fellow member of the forum to test the theory behind my bullet. These test bullets had a .393” nose section that tapered up to a .395” base. That .395” cylinderncontinued to the base for about .250”. Their performance was much better than any of my attempts with a straight sided profile yet the rifles still struggled to be competitive. After testing that design, I sent my design to Tom at Accurate Molds LLC to be cut. I made the OAL 1.21” to fit the 1-18” twist of both these rifles. Using #9 onion skin paper, I made the nose diameter .393” for my .400” bore. The base diameter is .403” to fit my .410” throat and is .28” long. My throat is .200” long so this gave me .080” of seating depth into the case. When the mold arrived in the mail, I tore into it like a kid on Christmas morning and started casting that evening. Using my 25:1 alloy the bullets come out at 369.7 grains. 40.2.jpg40.3.jpg

Just came across this thread while searching for something.
The thought process was interesting.
Just wondering how you fared in the long run with your guns.

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Re: daul diameter ppb's & the 40 2-5/8" bottleneck

Post by Michael Johnson » Mon May 03, 2021 9:21 pm

I just took delivery of a 32 inch heavy round barrel 40-90bn LRE in 1/14 twist. I will be experimenting with 400 and 420 grain DDPP bullets.The rifle has Distant Thunder's long range muzzle site along with a MVA XLR soule. It also has three scope blocks at 10.2 and 17inch spacing to allow for a Winchester 10X A scope as well as a 28 inch MVA scope.I have long range in mind with a difficult to shoot chambering.Wish me luck! I enjoy a challenge. My previous experience is with 45-70, 45-65. 45-2.6, and a 50-90.The plan is to compete with irons as well as scope for Silhouette as well as Creedmoor.

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Distant Thunder
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Re: daul diameter ppb's & the 40 2-5/8" bottleneck

Post by Distant Thunder » Tue May 04, 2021 6:30 am

Michael,

I look forward to following your journey with this rifle. I really like your plan for the rifle and all the thought you've put into it. Good luck and please bring us along with you!
Jim Kluskens
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A new age of tyranny dawns in the United States! If anyone is brave enough to say so they're destroyed by the BIG Tech branch of the Federal Government for spreading lies! "Reeducation" camps to follow!

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Re: daul diameter ppb's & the 40 2-5/8" bottleneck

Post by Don McDowell » Tue May 04, 2021 6:39 am

Michael, I have not shot the dual diameter bullet I had Brooks make for the 40's in the 40-90 yet, but it works great in the 40-70 st,40-65, and a friend I sent some of those bullets to was very pleased with the results in his 40-82.
Having said that, the .396415 M BACO bullet cast hard and wrapped in 7 lb paper shoots quite well in the 40-90 bn.

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