32-20 getting there. .
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32-20 getting there. .
In my search for a short-range BPTR, I've been getting acquainted with my little 32-20, A small-action BSA Martini 12/15 model, converted to centerfire. It was rebarreled with a Lothat Walther .308 1:12 twist barrel.
I'm now starting to get a feeling to what it likes and doesn't like, and the results are getting there:
This target was shot at 75 meters, prone, with sling, no other support. Load data as follows
Case: Remington 32-20
Primer: Fed. SP
Bullet: 151gr 30:1 RN bullet of my own design, made by Boomer's
Card overpowder wad
18.4 grs of Swiss 1 1/2Fg
What it doesn't like: cartridges cammed into the chamber, i.e. when the cartridge OAL is too long: this will open up groups.
Also, the wiping seems to be pretty important - I now used some other patches, slightly thicker and rougher, and it seems the result shows on target. Mind you, I did pull a shot - 1 of the shots in the 8-ring is the 1st shot from a cold, clean barrel ( the one at 6 o'clock) - not that it really heats up, mind you, the other is the pulled shot.
FWIW, I am wiping with patches moistened with WD40; Shouldn't work, but apparently it does...
I'm also experimenting with PP, but that's for a next post...
I'm now starting to get a feeling to what it likes and doesn't like, and the results are getting there:
This target was shot at 75 meters, prone, with sling, no other support. Load data as follows
Case: Remington 32-20
Primer: Fed. SP
Bullet: 151gr 30:1 RN bullet of my own design, made by Boomer's
Card overpowder wad
18.4 grs of Swiss 1 1/2Fg
What it doesn't like: cartridges cammed into the chamber, i.e. when the cartridge OAL is too long: this will open up groups.
Also, the wiping seems to be pretty important - I now used some other patches, slightly thicker and rougher, and it seems the result shows on target. Mind you, I did pull a shot - 1 of the shots in the 8-ring is the 1st shot from a cold, clean barrel ( the one at 6 o'clock) - not that it really heats up, mind you, the other is the pulled shot.
FWIW, I am wiping with patches moistened with WD40; Shouldn't work, but apparently it does...
I'm also experimenting with PP, but that's for a next post...
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Re: 32-20 getting there. .
So this is really a 30-20?
Did you have custom dies made for it? If would be pretty cool to see a paper patch load for it.
Did you have custom dies made for it? If would be pretty cool to see a paper patch load for it.
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Re: 32-20 getting there. .
Interesting. That's not much powder for sure!
I think the tiny cartridges are extra sensitive to fouling like you say. My .32-40's, when shot with black powder, are extremely sensitive to anything left in the bore at all. The only way I've got them to shoot without making flyers is to wipe very carefully. Usually three damp patches and followed by one patch that is nearly dry but with a tiny bit of ballistol on it.
I've also found that breech seating is a big help.
It will be interesting to hear how yours shoots with paper patched bullets if you ever decide to give it a try. I have shot some elliptical PP bullets in one of my .32-40's. They were also breech seated. The fired patches don't produce fine confetti like the larger calibres do. Accuracy was always less good than with GG bullets. I think that in my case the bullets were not bumping up consistently. I suspect that a blunt nosed bullet with a softer alloy would be the thing to do.
I think getting the tiny cartridges shooting with black powder is an excellent challenge. It is certainly much more difficult than with smokeless.
Chris.
I think the tiny cartridges are extra sensitive to fouling like you say. My .32-40's, when shot with black powder, are extremely sensitive to anything left in the bore at all. The only way I've got them to shoot without making flyers is to wipe very carefully. Usually three damp patches and followed by one patch that is nearly dry but with a tiny bit of ballistol on it.
I've also found that breech seating is a big help.
It will be interesting to hear how yours shoots with paper patched bullets if you ever decide to give it a try. I have shot some elliptical PP bullets in one of my .32-40's. They were also breech seated. The fired patches don't produce fine confetti like the larger calibres do. Accuracy was always less good than with GG bullets. I think that in my case the bullets were not bumping up consistently. I suspect that a blunt nosed bullet with a softer alloy would be the thing to do.
I think getting the tiny cartridges shooting with black powder is an excellent challenge. It is certainly much more difficult than with smokeless.
Chris.
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Re: 32-20 getting there. .
Yes, it would be a .30-20 - but the chamber is a minspec 32-20 chamber (No other posssibility, as the proof house will check according to CIP spec). And I've already tried some (groove-dia.) PP, it does show signs of wanting to perform, but seems to need quite a bit of cleaning between shots. Still, only a few shots with PP bullets done, so too early to tell whether it will perform satisfactorily. I have some test loads ready with thicker and thinner paper, we'll see. Bore-diameter will be a bit trickier, if the itch comes, I'll probably get a mould for a dual-diameter bullet...
One thing for sure - it needs to be loaded with the bullet barely touching the rifling, anything more will seriously degrade accuracy.
No custom dies made as I already had a Redding .30-20 die set (necksizer), but as I shoot fireformed, unsized brass... Maybe I should try some loads with neck tension.
Chris,
The fact that it shoots way less powder than a 32-40 might make it a bit less sensitive to fouling - after all, it will generate less of it, so there is not that much to clean out. PP will be tested wiping with water, not WD40 . I even made some bore pigs . Those PP cartridges are cute little b*ggers though.
One thing for sure - it needs to be loaded with the bullet barely touching the rifling, anything more will seriously degrade accuracy.
No custom dies made as I already had a Redding .30-20 die set (necksizer), but as I shoot fireformed, unsized brass... Maybe I should try some loads with neck tension.
Chris,
The fact that it shoots way less powder than a 32-40 might make it a bit less sensitive to fouling - after all, it will generate less of it, so there is not that much to clean out. PP will be tested wiping with water, not WD40 . I even made some bore pigs . Those PP cartridges are cute little b*ggers though.
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Re: 32-20 getting there. .
That is a good point with respect to the lower powder charge. When you shot your groove diameter bullets what did the confetti look like?
thanks,
Chris.
thanks,
Chris.
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Re: 32-20 getting there. .
Couldn't check - the range doesn't allow access in front of the firing point, and it was pretty dark... Also, there's the bullet-to-powder weight ratio which IMO is pretty important: with my little 32-20, it is 1:8.2. For you with a 32-40, it would be about 1:5.5 - 6 at most, assuming a 200gr or heavier bullet. And I'll be the 1st to admit that I'm shooting a heavy-for-cartridge bullet.
FWIW, the 171gr bullet doesn't shoot that well yet... And that one is just about as long as the case.
FWIW, the 171gr bullet doesn't shoot that well yet... And that one is just about as long as the case.
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Re: 32-20 getting there. .
If I remember correctly it would be about 45gr of powder with a bullet weight of around 185 grains.
You can actually get some pretty good velocity from a case full of Swiss 1.5 and a 185-200gr bullet in the .32-40. The last ones I ran over the chronograph were well over 1300 fps IIRC.
Chris.
You can actually get some pretty good velocity from a case full of Swiss 1.5 and a 185-200gr bullet in the .32-40. The last ones I ran over the chronograph were well over 1300 fps IIRC.
Chris.
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Re: 32-20 getting there. .
That would mean the bullet/powder weight ratio would be under 4.5, whereas I'm at 8. I'm at around 1100 fps, more like a BP 'whisper'.
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Re: 32-20 getting there. .
Here a pic of the rifle. obviously, the barrel still needs to be blued, and the wood refinished...
Half round, half octagon barrel, Lothar Walther .308. And I fould the sling at the Bisley trade fair. Buttstock is standard BSA 12/15
But then again, beautiful is as beautiful does...
Half round, half octagon barrel, Lothar Walther .308. And I fould the sling at the Bisley trade fair. Buttstock is standard BSA 12/15
But then again, beautiful is as beautiful does...
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Re: 32-20 getting there. .
my father and I are working on a 32-40 now and found swiss 3f to burn pretty darn clean, although 1f for now is giving the best accuracy . going to try the PP bullet design this winter. Good luck Matt
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Re: 32-20 getting there. .
I have one of the Australian Cadets I chambered in .357 Max which I shoot monthly in gong matches. The cartridge is superb for both smokeless or black having just about the perfect balance of case capacity for the bore diameter .
200 hundred grain bullets are right at the length and weight to allow good knock down and flat trajectory my load running right at 1600 fps.
Low recoil and miserly powder and lead consumption are a big bonus as well.
It was really not that great of a revolver cartridge but really shines in a carbine or rifle.
200 hundred grain bullets are right at the length and weight to allow good knock down and flat trajectory my load running right at 1600 fps.
Low recoil and miserly powder and lead consumption are a big bonus as well.
It was really not that great of a revolver cartridge but really shines in a carbine or rifle.
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Re: 32-20 getting there. .
Well,
As good as the GG bullets were shooting, the PP stuff was far worse... Couldn't even keep the black with al shots. It would print e few close together, and then throw some out. I'll try giving the barrel a thorough clean before trying it next time, but it was a bit of a disillusion...
As good as the GG bullets were shooting, the PP stuff was far worse... Couldn't even keep the black with al shots. It would print e few close together, and then throw some out. I'll try giving the barrel a thorough clean before trying it next time, but it was a bit of a disillusion...
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Re: 32-20 getting there. .
You will grow to love it the more you shoot it! I have two of them and prefer them to all my other rifles for just pure shooting pleasure. Hard to make yourself stop shooting as long as there is ammo left in the box.
My barrel is a Douglas xx premium grade 26 inches long.
My barrel is a Douglas xx premium grade 26 inches long.
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Re: 32-20 getting there - yesterday's try
Good evening gents,
I had another go yesterday evening with the little rifle - still shooting prone with sling, no support at 75meters (82 yds).
The only variation is the powder: this time I used Swiss FFg instead of 1 1/2Fg, same volume - which came out at 18.2 grains; so 0.2 grains lighter than the same volume of Swiss 1 1/2Fg.
The target below shows 10 shots fired, no fouler, and wiped between shots with 2 patches moistened with WD40. I'm pretty happy with the results, obviously... The group measures 1.58 inches at the outer edges, so 1.27 center-to-center, which makes it slightly under 2 MOA.
This is with the original BSA peep sights, aperture rear and front.
Hmmm... maybe the rifle can do better - but can I?
I had another go yesterday evening with the little rifle - still shooting prone with sling, no support at 75meters (82 yds).
The only variation is the powder: this time I used Swiss FFg instead of 1 1/2Fg, same volume - which came out at 18.2 grains; so 0.2 grains lighter than the same volume of Swiss 1 1/2Fg.
The target below shows 10 shots fired, no fouler, and wiped between shots with 2 patches moistened with WD40. I'm pretty happy with the results, obviously... The group measures 1.58 inches at the outer edges, so 1.27 center-to-center, which makes it slightly under 2 MOA.
This is with the original BSA peep sights, aperture rear and front.
Hmmm... maybe the rifle can do better - but can I?
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Re: 32-20 getting there. .
how much compression are you applying to the powder?? I found in our 38-55 that a under primer wad (made from yellow notepad paper) made quite the difference in group size as well.
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