Got Some Advice Today
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Got Some Advice Today
I was at the local shooting range today, shooting my Shiloh 45-70. I am a new black powder shooter, and am working on refining my load.
I was the only one there for awhile, but someone else stopped by, and noticed that I was shooting black powder. I mentioned that I was intending to try some long range competition with this rifle this year, and my first match would be in Phoenix at the end of February. He asked what powder and bullet I was using. (Olde Eynsford 2F, BACO Money 540 gr) He then told me that he is a “retired” black powder shooter, and offered the following “advice”:
1. Use a “cartridge” powder instead of Olde Eynsford. (I still don’t know what this means).
2. Don’t bother shooting a Money bullet, as anyone who has tried the Money bullet has given up on it.
3. Don’t bother using anything but a Magnum primer.
4. Don’t bother trying to get a good load with straight black powder, because a duplex load is necessary.
5. Bullet jump is necessary. Don’t bother trying the bullet pressed into the rifling.
6. Don’t expect anyone to help you at all when going to a long range match, as long range black powder competitive shooters are very secretive.
7. Don’t bother doing load development at a distance greater than 100 yards (I was shooting at 400 yards then).
8. A chronograph is totally useless in developing a consistent load.
So far my experiments seem at odds with some of his “advice”.
It may have been worth what I paid for it….. Time will tell. For now I will keep on trying different things.
I was the only one there for awhile, but someone else stopped by, and noticed that I was shooting black powder. I mentioned that I was intending to try some long range competition with this rifle this year, and my first match would be in Phoenix at the end of February. He asked what powder and bullet I was using. (Olde Eynsford 2F, BACO Money 540 gr) He then told me that he is a “retired” black powder shooter, and offered the following “advice”:
1. Use a “cartridge” powder instead of Olde Eynsford. (I still don’t know what this means).
2. Don’t bother shooting a Money bullet, as anyone who has tried the Money bullet has given up on it.
3. Don’t bother using anything but a Magnum primer.
4. Don’t bother trying to get a good load with straight black powder, because a duplex load is necessary.
5. Bullet jump is necessary. Don’t bother trying the bullet pressed into the rifling.
6. Don’t expect anyone to help you at all when going to a long range match, as long range black powder competitive shooters are very secretive.
7. Don’t bother doing load development at a distance greater than 100 yards (I was shooting at 400 yards then).
8. A chronograph is totally useless in developing a consistent load.
So far my experiments seem at odds with some of his “advice”.
It may have been worth what I paid for it….. Time will tell. For now I will keep on trying different things.
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Re: Got Some Advice Today
AVIATOR:
I'd be inclined to reject most of that advice. The guys on this forum will lead you straight. AND, you are probably not going to set the range on fire the first time out, anyway. Go and shoot and have a good time. (I have decided that the 2000+ miles are just to much to take on.) You will find that everyone on the range will do all they can to help you shoot a good score.
CHRIS
RGChristensen
I'd be inclined to reject most of that advice. The guys on this forum will lead you straight. AND, you are probably not going to set the range on fire the first time out, anyway. Go and shoot and have a good time. (I have decided that the 2000+ miles are just to much to take on.) You will find that everyone on the range will do all they can to help you shoot a good score.
CHRIS
RGChristensen
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Re: Got Some Advice Today
Retired BP shooter huh? I'd retire also if I followed that advice.
HG
HG
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Re: Got Some Advice Today
That Dude, basically is full of shit...I can prove almost all of that "advice" wrong.
I do all of my load testing at 900 yds. just for one. Not that everyone can do that I realize.
I do all of my load testing at 900 yds. just for one. Not that everyone can do that I realize.
- Don McDowell
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Re: Got Some Advice Today
That feller musta retired from shooting 20 years ago..
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger
- Distant Thunder
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Re: Got Some Advice Today
Not only is that bad advise it is mostly totally opposite of what I have found to be true. Now I am not a retired black powder shoot and I've only been shooting in competition for 24 years, but I wouldn't spend (waste) anymore time listening to that fellow.
You seem to be doing just fine at 400 yards from what I can see. What you're doing seems to be working pretty well, keep it up!
You seem to be doing just fine at 400 yards from what I can see. What you're doing seems to be working pretty well, keep it up!
Jim Kluskens
aka Distant Thunder
aka Distant Thunder
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Re: Got Some Advice Today
I can see why he retired from the sport. He has everything backwards
You should also consider taking a serious look at Swiss powder.
Chris.
You should also consider taking a serious look at Swiss powder.
Chris.
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Re: Got Some Advice Today
Aviator I noticed that you said that Phoenix is going to be your first long range match. One piece of advice I'd give you is that you really need to keep your eye on the bore condition. Even that early in the year it can be pretty hot and dry. Spend some time on the practice day talking to some of the more experienced shooters to see what they do. My first experience at Ben Avery was my second ever long range match. I really thought I had a good fouling management routine, but I was wrong. It would have been funny if it wasn't so sad. It is funny now that it's in the past though .
Chris.
Chris.
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Re: Got Some Advice Today
Aviator,
From one aviator to another: I think that guy was plain out lying to you probably because he can't shoot BP therefore no one can. None of what he says is true. I personally do not even bother shooting at 100 yards anymore. Listen to the people who responded after your comment... they are right. I have only been on the forums and shooting BP LR matches for a year and a half and I can say that BP shooters are certainly not secretive. I mean - look at this forum and Historical Shooting and other forums - how can anyone say the tremendous amount of personal experience offered on them is "secretive". I have cut and pasted off these forums pages and pages of data about loads, bullet weights, twist, casting techniques, annealing, paper patching, etc, etc. I got started in BP only because I wanted to shoot a buffalo with a Sharps using BP. But now I am addicted to competing in 1000 yard matches and I go to our local range's silhouette match every month. My wife has even started competing in .22BPCR matches and that's because she was warmly welcomed as a new shooter at her first match. So she wants to continue and now she even asks me "When are we going to the range again? I need to practice more." (I always say a silent prayer of thanks and start loading up the truck with our steel targets and lots of ammo.) The BP people on these forums have provided information that has saved me years of trial and error and given me practical advice on what equipment I really needed to buy. Not to mention helping me at matches and being patient while I try to learn to read the mirage. I think you'll find most of us will welcome the new guy and give any help needed. But people don't overload you either - they are not trying to preach their way - they just will tell you what has worked for them and if that makes sense to you then try it. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the match. And being able to shoot several days at 1000 yards means you can test your loads/rifles at the full distance.
From one aviator to another: I think that guy was plain out lying to you probably because he can't shoot BP therefore no one can. None of what he says is true. I personally do not even bother shooting at 100 yards anymore. Listen to the people who responded after your comment... they are right. I have only been on the forums and shooting BP LR matches for a year and a half and I can say that BP shooters are certainly not secretive. I mean - look at this forum and Historical Shooting and other forums - how can anyone say the tremendous amount of personal experience offered on them is "secretive". I have cut and pasted off these forums pages and pages of data about loads, bullet weights, twist, casting techniques, annealing, paper patching, etc, etc. I got started in BP only because I wanted to shoot a buffalo with a Sharps using BP. But now I am addicted to competing in 1000 yard matches and I go to our local range's silhouette match every month. My wife has even started competing in .22BPCR matches and that's because she was warmly welcomed as a new shooter at her first match. So she wants to continue and now she even asks me "When are we going to the range again? I need to practice more." (I always say a silent prayer of thanks and start loading up the truck with our steel targets and lots of ammo.) The BP people on these forums have provided information that has saved me years of trial and error and given me practical advice on what equipment I really needed to buy. Not to mention helping me at matches and being patient while I try to learn to read the mirage. I think you'll find most of us will welcome the new guy and give any help needed. But people don't overload you either - they are not trying to preach their way - they just will tell you what has worked for them and if that makes sense to you then try it. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the match. And being able to shoot several days at 1000 yards means you can test your loads/rifles at the full distance.
- Shadow 4
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Re: Got Some Advice Today
#1 This target was shot with Old E. 1023yds, NRA official size 1000yd targetAviator wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:12 pm
1. Use a “cartridge” powder instead of Olde Eynsford. (I still don’t know what this means).
2. Don’t bother shooting a Money bullet, as anyone who has tried the Money bullet has given up on it.
3. Don’t bother using anything but a Magnum primer.
4. Don’t bother trying to get a good load with straight black powder, because a duplex load is necessary.
5. Bullet jump is necessary. Don’t bother trying the bullet pressed into the rifling.
6. Don’t expect anyone to help you at all when going to a long range match, as long range black powder competitive shooters are very secretive.
7. Don’t bother doing load development at a distance greater than 100 yards (I was shooting at 400 yards then).
8. A chronograph is totally useless in developing a consistent load.
So far my experiments seem at odds with some of his “advice”.
It may have been worth what I paid for it….. Time will tell. For now I will keep on trying different things.
#2 This target was shot with Money Bullet
#3 This target was NOT shot with a magnum primer. Fed 210 Match Large Rifle primer
#4 This target was shot with straight black powder
#5 This target was shot with the bullet shoved so far into the rifling it's shocking
#6 This target was shot because of so much help from other black powder shooters I can't use it all
#7 This target was shot with a load developed at 500 yds
#8 This target was shot with a load developed with input from a chronograph
As you can tell by looking at this target, everything I done was wrong, guess I should've listened to the "retired" black powder shooters advice
As you can tell by looking at this target, my spotter is extremely disappointed with the results also
Where was all this guys advice when I needed it
Obviously, I need to change my ways
Guys got to be pulling your chain
74 grs 1 12 OLD E 3_zps6b36ql7i by Brian Hickey, on Flickr
Cowards rule the world these days.
Coward rules & coward customs
To succeed today, all you've got to know is how to blame & how to complain
Coward rules & coward customs
To succeed today, all you've got to know is how to blame & how to complain
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Re: Got Some Advice Today
I sought the advice of other black powder shooters when I started this game.
Everyone kept feeding me those OLD Wives Tales.
Unfortunately I had to learn by experience.
And those Number One shooters finally told me privately that they were actually weighing their powder when originally they told me otherwise.
Who do you believe? Any old Cowboy loves to string you along.
Everyone kept feeding me those OLD Wives Tales.
Unfortunately I had to learn by experience.
And those Number One shooters finally told me privately that they were actually weighing their powder when originally they told me otherwise.
Who do you believe? Any old Cowboy loves to string you along.
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Re: Got Some Advice Today
Thanks for the words of encouragement!
I am fairly gullible at times, but I am also pretty skeptical of what I hear until I have some confirmation. And this guy had my natural skepticism on full alert.
The last thing he said to me as he walked away was: "Sorry to burst your bubble."
I'm glad one of you mentioned fouling control. I shot my first black powder last October. Here in Indiana it is not dry, and I have been using a blow tube. But when I started thinking of going to Phoenix, I realized that I better not rely on that.... I bought a set of 15 of the BACO felt bore pigs, and have been using them the last two times out. Sort of messy, but they do take a lot of stuff out of the bore, and the bore looks visibly clean. However, I have been surprised that the bore still takes more cleaning after the session than I expected (about 80 rounds shot both times). I kind of like the looks of the bore pigs that some of you guys have posted using a brush in combination with the felt, and think I will make up some to try.
Not much over 4 weeks before leaving for Phoenix, so need to get busy I guess! We start a cold snap today for the foreseeable future, so not a good time for going to the range!
I am fairly gullible at times, but I am also pretty skeptical of what I hear until I have some confirmation. And this guy had my natural skepticism on full alert.
The last thing he said to me as he walked away was: "Sorry to burst your bubble."
I'm glad one of you mentioned fouling control. I shot my first black powder last October. Here in Indiana it is not dry, and I have been using a blow tube. But when I started thinking of going to Phoenix, I realized that I better not rely on that.... I bought a set of 15 of the BACO felt bore pigs, and have been using them the last two times out. Sort of messy, but they do take a lot of stuff out of the bore, and the bore looks visibly clean. However, I have been surprised that the bore still takes more cleaning after the session than I expected (about 80 rounds shot both times). I kind of like the looks of the bore pigs that some of you guys have posted using a brush in combination with the felt, and think I will make up some to try.
Not much over 4 weeks before leaving for Phoenix, so need to get busy I guess! We start a cold snap today for the foreseeable future, so not a good time for going to the range!
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Re: Got Some Advice Today
In defense of the old gent, if you go back and read on stuff from 20 years ago, That may have been the thinking back then. I know Cartridge was considered a very good powder. Was Swiss popular or even available then ?
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Re: Got Some Advice Today
Pretty sure he was younger than I am (but I am closing in on 64).
He said he quit black powder 2 years ago, and Swiss 1-1/2 is the only powder worth using.
Actually I do want to try Swiss, but haven't got there yet. I have lots of things to try, and lots of things to learn! But it's easy to get confused if trying too many things at once.
I started with Olde Eynsford 2F, and have used about 13 lbs of it so far. I almost tried Swiss first, but didn't. Right, wrong? Maybe someday I'll know! It's not unusual for me to learn things the hard way.... But I have been reading and trying to absorb things from this forum!
So far I can pretty consistently get groups with about 1-1/2 minutes vertical spread at 200 to 400 yards, but some days are better than others!
He said he quit black powder 2 years ago, and Swiss 1-1/2 is the only powder worth using.
Actually I do want to try Swiss, but haven't got there yet. I have lots of things to try, and lots of things to learn! But it's easy to get confused if trying too many things at once.
I started with Olde Eynsford 2F, and have used about 13 lbs of it so far. I almost tried Swiss first, but didn't. Right, wrong? Maybe someday I'll know! It's not unusual for me to learn things the hard way.... But I have been reading and trying to absorb things from this forum!
So far I can pretty consistently get groups with about 1-1/2 minutes vertical spread at 200 to 400 yards, but some days are better than others!