lead mix

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kenny s
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lead mix

Post by kenny s »

OK, refresh my old mind....
I'm casting 1 in 20 for my 40 70 SS Paper patch bullets. all's well.

I just ordered a BA greaser mold for a Money bullet, tapered .408 base and smaller front bands to fit my Shiloh .400 bore. .408 groove
1 in 16.
he had a .409 base in stock, but I think the .408 will be better. so I wait the four weeks....

question. if I change to a 1 16 mix for the greaser, what will that do to the bullet diameter? make it bigger or smaller?

will the 1/16 make it smaller or larger than the .408 base band?
and what would using 1.20 do?

tks..Ken
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bpcr shooter
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Re: lead mix

Post by bpcr shooter »

straight lead, your bullets will be smaller in dia and heavy, adding tin will allow the lead to "fill out" the mould better, but lighter. If you use WW adding tin will lower the BHN slightly, adding antimony will help with hardness and "fill out" but make things lighter. In your case I would try 20-1 but you may get slump and 16-1 may perform better, with such a long nose.
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beltfed
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Re: lead mix

Post by beltfed »

Just remember, you could get the 0.409" Baco GG mold and see how it fits/shoots.
Then you could always size some of the 409s down to 408 for comparison.
FWIW, I even "size" my DDEPP bullets to 0.409" after patching. It slicks them up nicely
and they fit perfectly in my Fire formed brass and in the freebore of my tight necked 40-65.
beltfed/arnie
TexasMac
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Re: lead mix

Post by TexasMac »

kenny s wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:13 am OK, refresh my old mind....
I'm casting 1 in 20 for my 40 70 SS Paper patch bullets. all's well.
I just ordered a BA greaser mold for a Money bullet, tapered .408 base and smaller front bands to fit my Shiloh .400 bore. .408 groove 1 in 16. He had a .409 base in stock, but I think the .408 will be better. so I wait the four weeks....
Question. If I change to a 1 in16 mix for the greaser, what will that do to the bullet diameter? make it bigger or smaller?
Will the 1/16 make it smaller or larger than the .408 base band?
And what would using 1.20 do?
tks..Ken
Ken,

BACO's mould diameters are specified with 1:20 alloy. Therefore if you use 1:16 alloy the bullet will be slightly larger (around 0.0005" larger) in diameter including the base. Even with 1:16 alloy a .409 bullet should work just fine. I and many others on this forum use the JIM409400M4 bullet in our .40 caliber Shiloh Sharps rifles and get excellent accuracy. Although smaller diameter bullets will bump up (obturate), I prefer a bullet diameter slightly larger than the groove diameter. BTW, I recommend a 1:16 alloy for money bullets due to the streamline nose and the possibility of nose slump with softer alloys.

Wayne
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bruce m
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Re: lead mix

Post by bruce m »

what sized bullet will fill a fired case with a sliding fit?
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TexasMac
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Re: lead mix

Post by TexasMac »

bruce m wrote: Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:34 am what sized bullet will fill a fired case with a sliding fit?
bruce,
Bruce,

In my Shiloh .40-65 chamber the BACO JIM409400M4 cast with 16:1 alloy can be finger seated into reformed Remington .45-70 cases that have been fired. Of course the ease of slip fitting is determined by the bullet diameter, the fired case neck OD and the case neck wall thickness. My cast bullet diameter is approximately 0.4094", the fired case neck OD close to the lip is 0.432" and the case neck walls are approximately 0.0110" to 0.0115" thick after being reformed and trimmed to match the chamber length.

BTW, I anneal after each firing so the "spring back" of my relatively soft case necks may be a little less, resulting in a slightly larger OD than for cases that have not been annealed after several firings, which is the reason I anneal often.

This is getting off the subject a bit but I ran a short experiment on annealing and case neck spring back a few years ago and how it affected what I call "thumb seated" bullets. I did not test accuracy but the bullet seating friction was definitely different between freshly annealed necks and those that were not annealed after several firings. I believe that the difference in seating friction affects the accuracy but it may be a miniscule amount. In any case it's why I anneal after each firing, but I also have a really nice Bench Source annealing machine which makes annealing very easy, quick and is a pleasure to use.

Wayne
NRA Life (Benefactor & President's Council) Member, TSRA Life Member, NSSF Member, Author & Publisher of the Browning BPCR book
http://www.texas-mac.com
bruce m
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Re: lead mix

Post by bruce m »

good post wayne.
annealing cases to suit black powder pressures as compared to smokeless is clearly advantageous, and keeping them that way is an obvious thing to do.
when the case obturates, the alloy bullet goes with it.
the less the alloy upsets the better for consistency shot to shot, as well as for a quicker gas seal.
if the case is a near fit to the chamber it will move less in obturation, and a friction fit bullet in that case will also move less.
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bruce m
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Re: lead mix

Post by bruce m »

further to the above (could not edit), my 45/2.4" has a loose chamber.
an obturated starline case is 0.460" internal.
shooting a 0.4585" bullet in this setup was o.k., but not startling.
i have some cut down norma 3.25" brass with thicker necks.
when these are annealed correctly, they finger seat bullets with a little friction.
the difference in accuracy is very noticeable with the same bullet.
although that bullet is a greaser the same rules apply to pp bullets, either dd in a greaser chamber or bore diameter in a pp chamber.
interestingly it also eliminated silver flaky stuff on wiping material.
when we talk annealing, we are actually referring to PARTIAL annealing with cartridge cases.
a true anneal will make them too soft, so we only partially do the process.
for black powder pressures we need softer, so do it a little more than for smokeless.
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus
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