Sizing 40-65 brass for PP load

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Coltsmoke
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Sizing 40-65 brass for PP load

Post by Coltsmoke » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:14 pm

Is there a sizing die that will size the case mouth down so a .400 dia. patched bullet will slip fit and not be so loose in the case. I know you can buy a bushing type die to do it. I don't think there is just a FLS die that will do it, or will it? What about a 40/10mm pistol die? Is there a standard die to use instead of spending the money for a bushing die? If I have to buy a bushing die to do it, that's O.K., just wondering. What is the mouth dia. when using a neck sizing die?
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Don McDowell
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Re: Sizing 40-65 brass for PP load

Post by Don McDowell » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:30 pm

The Lyman set I have sizes the case just about right for a .396 diameter bullet wrapped in 8 lb.
If the size die you have sizes the case to small, a custom expander die for the M die from BACO works well.
Other than that you might look around for a set of dies made for the original diameter bullets, or a 40-60 size die.
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Lumpy Grits
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Re: Sizing 40-65 brass for PP load

Post by Lumpy Grits » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:33 pm

IIRC-My buddy used a RCBS, .40S&W taper crimp die- and just sizes about 1/8-3/16 of the case mouth.
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Coltsmoke
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Re: Sizing 40-65 brass for PP load

Post by Coltsmoke » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:53 pm

That sounds like what I want to do Lumpy, just neck size the brass and then just take about the first 3/16 of the case on down to fit the bullet so it just don't fall out while trying to chamber the round.
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Distant Thunder
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Re: Sizing 40-65 brass for PP load

Post by Distant Thunder » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:46 pm

This is the neck sizing die I have used for years for my .40-65 and I have a .45 caliber die I use for my .45-70. It is simple and adjustable. You can size before seating the bullet or after. Works for me.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/11646 ... -sizer-die
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Re: Sizing 40-65 brass for PP load

Post by bruce m » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:43 am

or get a dual diameter pp mould to fit fired cases.
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bobw
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Re: Sizing 40-65 brass for PP load

Post by bobw » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:49 am

A lot of time with new unfired brass a full length resize will enable patch to bore diameter ppb seating as long as you do not use the case mouth expander. For the 40-65 I would do a full length resize 1 st time around so that they are fireformed to your chamber then deprime, clean the cases, dry them, reprime, charge and put a card wad on top then compression. You didn't say if you are using an exotic wad stack or grease cookies. For the cookie use,it goes in on top of the card wad and you put another on top it. Set up all your brass loaded to this point, now set a 40 SW carbide size die in your press and size the loaded cases down to what you need (I'd shoot for reduction for at least an 1/8" from the end of the mouth) It should hold a .399" patched slug fairly well. It does in my 40-2.1 BN and that brass has the same neck wall thickness as yours. Maybe you could do the neck sizing up front before the loading but I found that it made getting .408 wad a real pain in the ass to install that way. My 40 Carbide is out of a RCBS set. They never had this problem way back then in the 1870's because the chambers were cut tight enough so when a round was fired all that had to be done was to clean the case, reprime, charge, wad, follower for compression and powder column height consistency, lube wad, wad and insert the ppb with fingers. The fired case neck diameter was still tight enough to hold a patched bullet. Try this and get back on the thread I am sure that you can get on track.bobw
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kenny s
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Re: Sizing 40-65 brass for PP load

Post by kenny s » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:28 am

load them up, hand seat PP bullet, then run the bullet 'slightly' in a factory crimp die.
I don't 'set' the die, but just push enough to hold the PP bullet in place.
do it by feel.
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Re: Sizing 40-65 brass for PP load

Post by Pilgrim » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:58 pm

Colt, My "LYMAN 40 CAL NECK SIZE D04" die has an internal neck diameter of 0.426" measured with a plug gauge. I don't think this will do what you want unless the brass neck thickness around 0.013". I finally went to a neck bushing die by Neil Jones. Sure wish I were at River Bend tonight with good weather.

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Re: Sizing 40-65 brass for PP load

Post by Michael Johnson » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:23 pm

I use a Steve Meacham neck sizing bushing in my 45-70, 45-100, and 50-90 paper patch cartridges. I size them just enough to hold the patched bullet before seating. Doing it after bullet seating is detrimental to accuracy.
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Re: Sizing 40-65 brass for PP load

Post by powderburnt » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:52 am

There is no sizing of the case mouth when you use the Dual Diameter bullet design that Beltfed and DT use. The VLD inside case mouth deburring tool is a big plus for the slip fit of the bullet into the case. It does require the proper diameter base of the bullet to get the fit just right. I'll send you some of mine if want to try 'em.

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rfd
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Re: Sizing 40-65 brass for PP load

Post by rfd » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:20 am

i never size or expand or seat PPB brass with dies. however, for new or sized brass, i use a straight expander plug to simulate fire forming. once the case is fire formed, cleaned, primed, drop filled with bp, wadded, compressed, and a PPB is pushed in, i use a lyman taper crimp die that i've removed 3/8" off the bottom to squeeze the case mouth just enuf to keep PPBs from falling out. this is for both .40-65 and .45-70 PPB cartridges.
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Coltsmoke
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Re: Sizing 40-65 brass for PP load

Post by Coltsmoke » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:22 pm

I have found what works great. Load your powder, put your wad in place, then compress your powder and wad. You can use a Redding trim die and set it to just close the mouth of the case for a perfect fit to your PP bullet. After sizing just the mouth, insert your PP bullet and you are done. No need to neck size the brass or full length size it.
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rfd
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Re: Sizing 40-65 brass for PP load

Post by rfd » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:20 am

Coltsmoke wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:22 pm
I have found what works great. Load your powder, put your wad in place, then compress your powder and wad. You can use a Redding trim die and set it to just close the mouth of the case for a perfect fit to your PP bullet. After sizing just the mouth, insert your PP bullet and you are done. No need to neck size the brass or full length size it.
it's just a matter of selective protocol. you can do the mouth squeeze before or after the PPB is pushed in and get essentially the same results.

there is Never a need to full or neck size fired brass for a PPB black powder load. having the brass oriented and fired in yer gun's chamber is the goal. if the chamber is a greaser, then the case mouth will be opened too far for a bore rider PPB. this is where the mouth sizing is a requirement in order to lightly hold in the bore rider PPB.

i've done that squeezing with both taper crimp and full sizing dies. typically, neither will take the mouth down enuf for a bore rider PPB unless the die is shortened to allow the case to go further into the taper of the die. this is where the taper crimp die works best for shortening on a lathe, at least for me.

this is also where a "tighter" chamber will mean less brass is being worked. i have that special chamber in a .45-70 and there can be no need to squeeze the case mouth. the cartridge is fired, brass is cleaned, primed, drop filled, wadded, compressed (the only need for a press operation), a PPB is pushed in and we're off to the firing line.
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Coltsmoke
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Re: Sizing 40-65 brass for PP load

Post by Coltsmoke » Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:25 pm

O.K. RFD, I cut my Lyman Taper Crimp die off and it works fine to do the job. The Redding Trim die works just as good too. Tried the RCBS 40 S&W Seater die also, it will do the job, but you can not set the die in the press. It is just a guessing game as to how far you push the case into this die, I don't suggest using this die. You can cut the Lyman Taper Crimp die off and use it and still use it just for a regular Taper Crimp die also. The RCBS Trim die is another $60, if you don't need to use one for trimming brass I would save the money and cut your Taper Crimp die and use it. I can now return the trim die I borrowed and not spend another $60. Thanks RFD.
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