Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

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TexasMac
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Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by TexasMac » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:20 pm

Is anyone using Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber - .40-65 to be specific? If so how is it working out. I'm seriously considering switching from Swiss 1.5Fg to either Swiss 2Fg or 3Fg to increase velocity rather than more compression.

Wayne
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by Clarence » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:28 am

Wayne,

It could be an interesting experiment. With my current lot of Swiss 1-1/2, from sometime in 2015, I'm needing to use 54 gr. to get just over 1200 fps with a 420 gr. Postell in my grandson's new MVA Highwall, and that has ~0.25" compression. That load is shooting tighter than anything lighter I've tested so far.

Clarence

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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by Kurt » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:33 am

Wayne.
I had some very good results with 3F Swiss with the .40-65. I made a post a little below here "New Swiss?" of one of my targets with test load results that shot so well using a previous lot of 3F swiss. I can't tell you what that lot was because I used it up and ordered a new batch with a lot# 2-26-18 I might still have the box in the shed to get a number off, I have to look. But I had some change with a identical load that concerned me because it came under a new label.
James from Swiss down at Arlington Texas got word of my problem and contacted me for particulars and I told him to relax till it warms up so I can get back out to redevelop a load with the new lot and I will get back to him. I will say, they do pay attention to us shooters using their product. I wish I still had some of the last lot to do some weight comparisons and chronograph work.
But the last lot of 3F in the .40-65 shot sub MOA groups at 200 several times using a 414 BA elliptical PP bullet.
But I need to work up loads again before I can make a solid judgement to use it for this season Silhouette matches.......Kurt
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beltfed
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by beltfed » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:18 am

Kurt,
What velocity were you getting and what charge of 3f under that 414 gr bullet?
beltfed/arnie

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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by beltfed » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:19 am

Kurt,
What velocity were you getting and what charge of 3f under that 414 gr bullet?
beltfed/arnie

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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by Kurt » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:16 pm

Arnie.

I haven't shot over a chronograph with this new lot.
I still have the empty can of the last batch of 3F swiss I used for load tests in the new .40-65 that shot sub MOA with the best 5 shots that went 3/4" vertical 1-1/2 horizontal @200 yds. That load was 63 grains of 3F Swiss lot# 050,503 and the bullet was cast with 1/16 T/L with the BA 395" elliptical PP.
The new lot 2-26-18 put 10 @200 into around 8" I didn't measure it. Everything was the same except the new powder.
The next time out when it's fit I will take the chronograph.

Kurt
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by rfd » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:45 pm

a very interesting question that i've just now been pondering as well, for PPB cartridges. currently i can easily get in over 70 grains of swiss 1-1/2f, under a .060 LDPE wad, under a 16:1 392 grain .393" accurate molds 40-400P slick w/.18" meplat that's pushed .10" into the case. i've got plenty of swiss 3f as that's all i use for the flintlocks, both .54 and .62. life is good.

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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by BFD » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:30 pm

Do 40 shooters feel that 3f is necessary for extra velocity to make up for the lack of bullet mass?

I would think that 65-70 gr of 1.5 would be more than enough to get the job done.

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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by Kurt » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:03 pm

I don't. I use what ever makes my loads shoot well. I don't care if I get 1100 or 1400 fps but I do care how well the load works.
I mostly use the 3F for the muzzle loaders and the flash pan so I don't have to carry two horns and it shoots well in the front stuffers.

The most I can get in my case shot in the tight chamber is 65 grains.
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by TexasMac » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:45 pm

BFD wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:30 pm
Do 40 shooters feel that 3f is necessary for extra velocity to make up for the lack of bullet mass?
I would think that 65-70 gr of 1.5 would be more than enough to get the job done.
Brent,

In my case it's not an issue with having sufficient energy at the ram line, but an accuracy issue. Even loads as low as 59grs (1240 to 1245fps) with 400gr bullets has sufficient energy at 500M to reliably take down the rams. After trying several bullets and many powder combination with Swiss 1.5Fg I've come to the conclusion that at least 1250fps or more is required to get reasonable 500 meter accuracy in a 16-twist bore with 400 + grain bullets. And I’d prefer to be in the 1275 to 1300fps range. Also, I'd prefer to keep the compression as low as possible with Swiss, certainly under 0.1". I've done a lot of shooting and testing to come to that conclusion. In fact I currently have an article in works on the subject. I know some will disagree & I'm not going to justify my conclusion here other than to say read the article when it's published in a couple of months or so. I'll be sure to post a link here.

BTW, the only way I could get 70grs in my loads is to compress approximately 0.3”. 62grs with 1.5Fg & 0.093” of compression yields around 1290fps. So it’s not a major problem at this time but was wondering if 3F might offer an advantage due to less compression and/or possibly a little more velocity, hence the reason for the thread.

Wayne
Last edited by TexasMac on Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by BFD » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:49 pm

Someday, Wayne, you will come over into the light and travel the Paper Patch Way. :)

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rfd
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by rfd » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:04 pm

i think it would be interesting to see how 70-72 grains of swiss 3f would compare against the same amount of swiss 1-1/2f. my compression is a minimal .060", no matter what the powder. ah yes, another luxury of the PPW. :wink:

anyhoo, that's on my to-do list. at this time, constrained only by momma nature.
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by BFD » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:06 pm

I'd wager around 100 fps or a little less. Just a guess.

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rfd
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by rfd » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:13 pm

BFD wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:06 pm
I'd wager around 100 fps or a little less. Just a guess.
my thinking too. the other concern is its effect on the brass.
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by TexasMac » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:21 pm

rfd wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:13 pm
BFD wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:06 pm
I'd wager around 100 fps or a little less. Just a guess.
my thinking too. the other concern is its effect on the brass.
rfd,

What kind of effect?

Wayne
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