Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

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rfd
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by rfd » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:42 am

TexasMac wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:21 pm
rfd wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:13 pm
BFD wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:06 pm
I'd wager around 100 fps or a little less. Just a guess.
my thinking too. the other concern is its effect on the brass.
rfd,

What kind of effect?

Wayne
case stretch?
BR ~ TMA ~ BPG

SchuetzenDave
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by SchuetzenDave » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:41 am

Wayne:

My .40-65 has a tight bore with no leade so I cannot extend the bullet out to put more powder into my case.

I use 52.7 grains of Swiss FFFg with a 410 grain Boomer Money bullet with a newspaper wad over the flash channel and a .060 vegetable wad to obtain 1,250 fps.

I use Remington 9 1/2M primers.
The Magnum primers result in clean fouling and I have no problem with fouling that everyone warned me would happen if I ever used FFFg powders.
Possibly you might get more fouling if you shoot higher loads of FFFg but 52.7 grains results in very light fouling.

I have a 16:1 twist 30 inch barrel.

Dave

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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by SchuetzenDave » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:47 am

Forgot to mention the 52.7 FFG Swiss load averages 1.2 MOA accuracy.
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Last edited by SchuetzenDave on Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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rfd
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by rfd » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:48 am

SchuetzenDave wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:41 am
... My .40-65 has a tight bore with no leade so I cannot extend the bullet out to put more powder into my case. ...
ah, one of the plus factors with a PPB bore rider - no OAL issues and full 70+ grains case fulla powder. 8)
BR ~ TMA ~ BPG

gunlaker
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by gunlaker » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:04 am

I also shoot FFFg in my .40-65 sometimes, but Express FFFg rather than Swiss. I use 58gr with the Saeco #740 bullet.

It shoots very well, but just a little less good than Swiss 1.5. As far as velocity goes, if I remember correctly I'm at around 1250 fps somewhere.

Chris.

Clarence
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by Clarence » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:24 am

In my Shiloh, shooting the Kidwell Money Bullet with past lots of Swiss 1.5Fg, I got the best accuracy with the bullet pushed into the tapered lands (but not so much that the cartridge was ever hard to seat) with ~0.170" compression (sorry-thrown by volume, weight not measured, but probably 65 gr. or so. OAL was 3.170". Velocity was 1340-1350 fps. I'll need to re-test my current lot to see what works best in it.

My grandson's rifle is an MVA Highwall with Bartlein barrel, and Dan Zimmerman's chamber (very tight). I'm using the BA 40 Postell so he can use a blow tube, and it is definitely coming alive with more compression than I've ever used before with Swiss, even though the velocity is right around 1200 fps, which I consider completely adequate.

Clarence

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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by TexasMac » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:46 pm

Clarence wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:24 am
In my Shiloh, shooting the Kidwell Money Bullet with past lots of Swiss 1.5Fg, I got the best accuracy with the bullet pushed into the tapered lands (but not so much that the cartridge was ever hard to seat) with ~0.170" compression (sorry-thrown by volume, weight not measured, but probably 65 gr. or so. OAL was 3.170". Velocity was 1340-1350 fps. I'll need to re-test my current lot to see what works best in it.

My grandson's rifle is an MVA Highwall with Bartlein barrel, and Dan Zimmerman's chamber (very tight). I'm using the BA 40 Postell so he can use a blow tube, and it is definitely coming alive with more compression than I've ever used before with Swiss, even though the velocity is right around 1200 fps, which I consider completely adequate.
Clarence
Clarence,

You may have mentioned it earlier or in another thread but what is the twist rates of the two rifles? The reason I'm asking is my Shiloh .40-65 has a 14.5 twist bore with excellent accuracy so far with the 400gr BACO 409400M4 bullet with 60gr of Swiss 1.5F & 0.070" of compression. I have not measured the velocity but guessing it's around 1275fps based on similar loads in my Browning.

Wayne
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gunlaker
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by gunlaker » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:23 pm

My load with the Kidwell money bullet is very similar to Clarence's. Three thousandths shorter OAL and a touch less powder. My Magnetospeed says it's going 1336 fps out of my Shiloh's 1:14 twist 32" barrel. It shoots very well and holds elevation extremely well.

Chris.

AzTBH
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by AzTBH » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:57 pm

Wayne

Although my Shiloh is chambered for a 40-70SS, the attached table does provide a comparison for a .40 caliber between equal values (i.e.70 grains) of OE 1-1/2 and Swiss 3Fg. I was surprised that the Swiss 3Fg only yielded a 10 FPS increase over the OE 1-1/2 powder.

https://shilohrifle.com/forums/download ... 82aad294be
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Ross McCollum
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by TexasMac » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:29 pm

AzTBH wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:57 pm
Wayne
Although my Shiloh is chambered for a 40-70SS, the attached table does provide a comparison for a .40 caliber between equal values (i.e.70 grains) of OE 1-1/2 and Swiss 3Fg. I was surprised that the Swiss 3Fg only yielded a 10 FPS increase over the OE 1-1/2 powder.
https://shilohrifle.com/forums/download ... 82aad294be
AzTBH,

Although I have no experience with Old Eynsford what surprises me is your velocity results (1428fps) with 70grs of OE. Using BACO's 409400M4 bullet I've easily stuffed 72grs of Swiss 1.5F into a .40-65 (0.110" of compression). The results were 1362fps in a 16-twist 30" barrel.

Wayne
NRA Life (Benefactor & President's Council) Member, TSRA Life Member, NSSF Member, Author & Publisher of the Browning BPCR book
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Clarence
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by Clarence » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:39 pm

Wayne,

Both my rifles are 1:16 twist. My Shiloh was built in 1996. When I ordered it in 1991, 1:18 was the standard and 1:16 was an option I specified; by the time it was built, 1:16 was the standard.

I don't think the 1:16 twist makes much difference in the BA 40 Postell; it is almost identical to the Lyman Snover, with which I've had very good experience in several 1:16 barrels and even in a 1:18 barreled .40-70 SS (except for the quality of the mould).

I've read or heard several places that the Kidwell bullet likes to be pushed hard, and that's been my experience to date. I can understand that the tighter twist may give good results at lower velocities.

The less dense Swiss obviously has less energy per unit volume, necessitating more compression to get equal velocity. My notes from 10-15 years ago indicate that the lots of Swiss I was shooting then were somewhat more dense, perhaps at least 6-7% more, which would explain why I got 1200 fps with 0.050-0.060" compression. Not necessarily bad, just different, and a reason for needing to use more compression.

Clarence

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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by AzTBH » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:35 pm

Wayne

Thanks for the review and feedback. I rechecked my Reloading Log and the values in the table are those recorded for the 70 grain OE 1-1/2. Bob H and I measured the velocities with his chronograph, so I do not have the memory card to retrieve the data. However, these are the nine (9) velocities that wrote down: 1422, 1428, 1425, 1430, 1437, 1424, 1429, 1430, and 1428 FPS.

This is the only time that chronographed this load. However, now that you have my curiosity up, and have purchased my own Labradar, I am going to load up and chronograph a duplicate load. I will post the results after the test. Hopefully in the next week or two.

Good Shooting,
Ross
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beltfed
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by beltfed » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:35 pm

I am shooting my 40-65/WW cases with 75 gr Swiss 1.5 under a 371 gr DDEPP bullet for
1400fps across my Oehler.
Exlt Accuracy even to long range.
NO problem with brass.
beltfed/arnie

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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by TexasMac » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:53 pm

beltfed wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:35 pm
I am shooting my 40-65/WW cases with 75 gr Swiss 1.5 under a 371 gr DDEPP bullet for
1400fps across my Oehler.
Exlt Accuracy even to long range.
NO problem with brass.
beltfed/arnie
Arnie,

That certainly makes sense considering my 1362fps with 72gr of Swiss 1.5F and a 30gr heavier bullet. I just checked my reloading log and the hottest load I've ever shot in my .40-65 is 75gs of Swiss 1.5 under a 400gr Kidwell bullet (409400M4) with a velocity of 1385fps. The compression was 0.200" with a 0.060" fiber wad. BTW, I've also never had a problem with brass stretching but know from experience that longer cases tend to stretch some especially with heavy powder compression and more so if the inside case walls are not cleaned real good.

Wayne
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Coltsmoke
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Re: Swiss 3Fg in .40 caliber

Post by Coltsmoke » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:05 am

Beltfed, now much compression is on that 75gr. Swiss PP load, and what size wad did you use?

TexasMac, your 72gr. load had how much compression and what wad did you use in it?

How much more powder will WW brass hold in a .40 compared to Starline?
Swamp Man Shelby Stanza for President!!

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