45-70 Hunting Bullet for 50-300 yds Deer/Elk

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themoose
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Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:54 am

45-70 Hunting Bullet for 50-300 yds Deer/Elk

Post by themoose » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:17 pm

I'm just beginning to load for a couple 45-70's
My main interest is a hunting load (Midwest whitetails for me and elk & big deer for nephew in Idaho. I have been casting and shooting BP for years, but mostly ML's. I only have two molds for 45-70 currently...the Lyman Postell I used for silouetts and the Gould HP.. I've taken deer with both with ML's but imagine there are better choices available.. I would appreciate suggestions on both molds and bhn's.

Thank you very much for your help.
Kindest regards,
Themoose

beltfed
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Bullet for 50-300 yds Deer/Elk

Post by beltfed » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:41 pm

themoose,
What rifles are you using?
FWIW, I have carried my Win '86 for about 20 years for No.WI deer.
I have used the Lyman 457483 FN Gas check bullet cast of 9+1 ww/lino, Wt 385 gr
over a Lyman listed load of 48 gr 3031 or Re 7. Clocks about 1740fps .
Have shot a good number of relatively large Whitetail bucks ranging up into the 180s to 200# field dressed.
Always one shot one kill . Always Full penetration thru and thru, Low meat damage. The deer don't go far.

Elmer Keith hunted Elk in the Black Timber in Idaho with an '86 win .
He loaded first shot "up the spout" with a 500 gr Gov't RN Load, followed by heavy 400 gr FN loads in the magazine.
( the load with 500 gr RN is too long to feed from magazine)
beltfed/arnie

themoose
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Bullet for 50-300 yds Deer/Elk

Post by themoose » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:17 pm

Thanks for the response. I will be loading for s

1874 Shiloh Sharp's and H&R Buffalo Classic

Dennis Armistead
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Bullet for 50-300 yds Deer/Elk

Post by Dennis Armistead » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:29 pm

The Moose,
I only hunt with a Sharps in .45-70 and have come to rely solely on the 500 gr. Govt. 40:1. Big wide grease grooves keeps fouling under control for back up shots and the round nose has plenty of mass for penetration. Hope this helps.
Dennis
Experience trumps intelligence every time.

George Babits
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Bullet for 50-300 yds Deer/Elk

Post by George Babits » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:49 pm

I've used the Lyman 457193 for everything from gophers to buffalo in my 45-70. I think that 420 grain flat nosed bullet bullet was originally a Marlin design. Doesn't matter, it is a great bullet for hunting. I think my Sharps (an original 1874 action re=barreled 50 years ago) has a 1:20 twist, but maybe 1:18. For hunting, I doubt you'll be shooting much beyond 150 yards with a a 45-70. The flat nose design is a much better design for hunting than a round nose in my book. And on a calm day I can hit a 40" gong just fine at 1000 yards with that slug no problem at all.

George
Salmon, Idaho

themoose
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Bullet for 50-300 yds Deer/Elk

Post by themoose » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:55 pm

Thanks Folks

Kenny Wasserburger
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Bullet for 50-300 yds Deer/Elk

Post by Kenny Wasserburger » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:35 pm

I pretty much agree with Dennis, the 1881 bullet mold I have from Paul Jones is all the hunting bullet you need in a 45-70 or a 110. I even have a pp mold in the same nose shape, from BACO.

KW.
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Michael Johnson
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Bullet for 50-300 yds Deer/Elk

Post by Michael Johnson » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:04 pm

For deer, elk , and bison in a 45 I have used the Paul Jones 480 grain flat nose bullet. It is the Creedmoor with the nose loped off to present a .300 meplat. I cast them in 40/1 so they are fairly soft but cast easily because of the added tin. In reality it probably matters very little when you put the bullet where it belongs. A paper patched bullet would serve your needs equally as well. This works for me! Good hunting! - Mike
Mike Johnson
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rdnck
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Bullet for 50-300 yds Deer/Elk

Post by rdnck » Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:25 am

A Lyman 457121 480 grain flatnosed bullet is an accurate killer. When you need maximum penetration, the old round nosed Govt. bullet at 500 to 520 grains is the way to go in a 45. I have seen a buffalo hit in the chest at 100 yards with the 457125 Govt. bullet at 30-1 and 70 grains of 2F shot all the way through end to end and the bullet lodge in the pelvis. The buffalo turned around and took three steps and went down. It's hard to argue with that. Shoot straight, rdnck.
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beltfed
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Bullet for 50-300 yds Deer/Elk

Post by beltfed » Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:38 am

Indeed, that 500 gr govt RN bullet is the way to go for complete penetration.
As I mentioned above, Elmer Keith loaded a 500 up the spout for Elk in Black Timber,
Because he might have to take a "Texas Heart Shot" if he jumped a Bull who was
heading away from him
beltfed/arnie

bobw
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Bullet for 50-300 yds Deer/Elk

Post by bobw » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:31 am

A lot of different view points here. Historically the 420 ppb in the 45-2.1 killed more buffalo than the 500 gr bullet did. It and the 400 gg bullet were the Sharps factory loads. 500 gr pp bullets were available to the people who handloaded. The 1881 bullet a 4 groove 500 gr design came about in 1881 for Gov't loaded ammo. The Lyman 457125 emulates the 1881 bullet which is offered by SAECO, unless someone sells you his P Jones mold they are no longer available. he retired. I think that more than a few people use the Postell for targets as is and cut the nose off of it for hunting use. The Gould bullet is a hollow point design that works well in lever guns but you either cast them soft for expansion moving them at 1200 fps or so or harder for higher velocity that results in point fragmentation. Lyman makes the 457193 at 400+ grs that is plain based and flatnosed. In my 86 I use the RCBS 400+ grainer with the gas checked base. Lots of choices. Your ability with range estimation and how well you are shooting the sights of your choice will be more of a limiting factor than which bullet you use. In my Shilohs I use paper patch cast soft for hunting. Good luck
bobw

Kurt
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Bullet for 50-300 yds Deer/Elk

Post by Kurt » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:11 pm

I use the 457-121 in my Marlin 95 it is a very accurate bullet and you can empty the mag shooting black powder with out feeding problems.
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