Recommendations for Long Range Target rifle

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BFD
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Re: Recommendations for Long Range Target rifle

Post by BFD » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:33 am

I have shot with a wind gauge front sight, and Dennis's concern is very relevant. :(

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Don McDowell
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Re: Recommendations for Long Range Target rifle

Post by Don McDowell » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:24 pm

Dennis I have shot with a windguage front, and gave it up rather quickly. In the switching and variable wind conditions we encounter out here in the west, a person can get in a fix right quick with those things. Much simpler to keep all the adjusments on the same end of the gun. :)
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?

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desert deuce
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Re: Recommendations for Long Range Target rifle

Post by desert deuce » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:24 pm

Why I normally have windgauge front sights on our long range rifles shall remain a trade secret on this thread. It has been stated elsewhere on this forum. With that said, I think the most I have ever put on the front in a match was 20 minutes into the wind front plus 29 on the rear sight and shot nine consecutive nines at 1,000 yards full value wind from nine o'clock. Which I assume is something like Bruce mentioned. But where he shoots South is North and right is left and that is before considering the Coriolis effect which is probably around four minutes or more.

All that doesn't really matter to the question the original poster asked. Nyeaah, (Kiwi for yes), shooting off sticks an untapered round barrel is what I have evolved into for long range. Cast Off for shooting with sling and/or wrist rest in International Competition and keeping a head up instead of tilted to the side in American Competition. Untapered round adds weight and puts that weight forward. May just be a personal thing. For me cast off promotes a natural head position for the eye to align with the sights.

A consideration not mentioned is shooter fatigue. Long Range BPCR Matches can run as much as 400 shots in 8-10 days counting sight in days.
A 14.5 pound rifle with same barrel and caliber of an 11.5 pound rifle will yield considerably less felt recoil. More weight forward seems to steady the rifle on the sticks and seems to reduce barrel jump off the sticks. That 3 pounds makes a difference after 400 shots.

While a major secret is determining a balanced load for the rifle/shooter combination that can only be pursued with rifle in hand.

I have tried tight match chambers and have gone back to standard match chambers.

Paper patch? So far, the only rifleman that I have observed to consistently shoot competitively in BPCR Long Range Target with paper patch against experienced and equally competitive grease groove bullet shooters is Jim 'Distant Thunder' Kluskens. If contemplating shooting paper patched bullets I would invite him to share his experiences in competition before I made that leap of faith. Listen carefully to the years of dedicated process he went through before he arrived at where he is today.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!

bruce m
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Re: Recommendations for Long Range Target rifle

Post by bruce m » Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:33 pm

if no other use for a windage foresight, it can be used to counter spindrift.
at 1000 yds this is about 2moa.
if you put that on the foresight, wind calls then become meaningful.
either that or set a deadwind zero for 1000 yds, and then it is incorrect for closer.
failure to have the rifle set for deadwind zero at the range you shoot means that you are really only chasing shots which puts you behind the 8ball for a start.
how far from the centre is 2moa ? significant percentage of the target.
bruce.
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bruce m
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Re: Recommendations for Long Range Target rifle

Post by bruce m » Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:42 pm

I would like to see windage sights with the scale on the rear.
this is often hard to do as that is where the bubble level is.
when the odg shot they took it in turns to shoot 1 shot,so the scale on the front was better.
they would set it while standing waiting their turn.
the fact remains that if you need 50+ moa, there is just too much movement on a rear sight.
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus

buffalocannon
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Re: Recommendations for Long Range Target rifle

Post by buffalocannon » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:58 am

If I had it to do again, would order what I have, that is: Shiloh '74 Montana roughrider, semi fancy wood and AA finish, traditional checkering, steel shotgun butt, 34" heavy barrel, Hartford collar, 2.6", pewter tip, brass escutcheons, MVA 107 Sharps long range rear sight, MVA Montana magnum Hadley eye disc, MVA 112 front sight. It came with the double triggers, the pistol grip, no cheek rest and the old color case hardening. I've always liked the front sight windage. I set it for the prevailing wind and work the rear sight for the gusts. Now 20 years old, still a beautiful, good shooting rifle. Getting a patina now as the bluing and case hardening are disappearing from use. Weighs about 13.5 pounds with the LimbSaver recoil pad. Maxing out the rear sight, it will shoot on target at a shade over 1300 yards. I prefer the '74 to the '77. I shot the '77 a bit at one time. I just prefer the feel of the '74.

PEteacher
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Re: Recommendations for Long Range Target rifle

Post by PEteacher » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:16 pm

Thank you all. You have given me lots of good food for thought.
When the new local range (just west of Ottawa, Kansas) gets going, I will post information about it here.

Thanks again,
Shiloh - best rifles and best forum!

Jeff

BFD
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Re: Recommendations for Long Range Target rifle

Post by BFD » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:38 pm

Jeff, since you are in the Ottawa area, you might want to keep that gun under 12# 2 oz so you can also shoot silhouette with it. You have a pretty nice range (the Miller Range) about half way between Topeka and Emporia. They shoot a match on the third weekend in every month (usually both Saturday and Sunday). You definitely would enjoy it, I think. And a 12 pound silhouette rifle will do just fine as a Long Range rifle if it is a .45 caliber of one flavor or another.

PEteacher
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Re: Recommendations for Long Range Target rifle

Post by PEteacher » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:03 pm

BFD,
I just recently discovered the Miller range, and am beginning preparations to enter the Silhouette game, including making and using bore pigs (from what I learned here).
Up to now, I have just been using my Sporter #1 in 45-2.1, and Sporter #3 in 40-65 for casual shooting on our family range, and for deer hunting. (No deer yet - we have had a roaming dog problem last few years, which we are working with the dog owners to remedy.) I can use either of those rifles at Miller.
I know the 45-2.1 would also work for longer ranges when the new local range gets going, so my inquiry on long range rifles was mostly brain exercise in case I someday go that route. We all need "just one more Shiloh", right? (I have a #3 in 50-90 ordered that should go into production pretty soon - everyone needs a light plinker😜)
At 64 years young, like many on this forum, I no longer need competition to prove anything to anyone, but i also know that competing gives more purpose and direction for improving my shooting. I just like getting better at whatever I do!

Thanks again to all for your help,
Jeff

BFD
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Re: Recommendations for Long Range Target rifle

Post by BFD » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:53 am

Sounds like you have pretty much all options covered then, and you are going to be good to go for anything with a long range rifle too. I look forward to seeing you at Miller sometime - hopefully soon, if I can get away.

BFD
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Re: Recommendations for Long Range Target rifle

Post by BFD » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:53 am

Sounds like you have pretty much all options covered then, and you are going to be good to go for anything with a long range rifle too. I look forward to seeing you at Miller sometime - hopefully soon, if I can get away.

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