Safety Procedures/Rules

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Glen Ring
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Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:45 pm

Safety Procedures/Rules

Post by Glen Ring » Wed May 22, 2019 9:33 am

What safety rules/procedures do you maintain at your range?
We demand eye and ear protection, Open Chamber Indicators and the muzzle to always be UP except when on the line.
NO HORIZONTAL carry.
It seems at most BPCR ranges the cleaning areas are behind the lines and it's the same with our Range in Arcadia...but we are going to start asking the competitors to not have any ammunition on the cleaning tables.
I shot IPSC and action Pistol for years and their safety rules were VERY strict and I , as a competitor, felt better knowing the match directors were running a SAFE match.
All hail Don, the stirrer of the pot , writer of self-promoting Novellas and decliner of challenges.

BFD
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:36 pm

Re: Safety Procedures/Rules

Post by BFD » Wed May 22, 2019 10:03 am

Not having ammunition on a table is pretty drastic in my opinion. Where is one going to put it? Further, many of us use shooting boxes that are designed to carry our ammo and serve as a cradle for gun cleaning. Such a rule would be very poorly received by people like me.

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bryany
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Location: Casper, Wyoming

Re: Safety Procedures/Rules

Post by bryany » Wed May 22, 2019 10:18 am

Where is ammunition kept if not at the table?

Bryan
“I wonder if God created man because He was disappointed with the monkey.” Mark Twain

Glen Ring
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Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:45 pm

Re: Safety Procedures/Rules

Post by Glen Ring » Wed May 22, 2019 10:22 am

We have tables at our range so it would be easy to place the ammo box under the table. We had a seasoned BPCR competitor put a loaded gun on the table last year. A simple inconvenience for a LOT of safety.
We would also require you to open the action and have a Open chamber Indicator in the gun.
Inconvenience maybe, lot more safe definitely.
All hail Don, the stirrer of the pot , writer of self-promoting Novellas and decliner of challenges.

BFD
Posts: 1915
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Re: Safety Procedures/Rules

Post by BFD » Wed May 22, 2019 10:29 am

Glen Ring wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 10:22 am
We have tables at our range so it would be easy to place the ammo box under the table. We had a seasoned BPCR competitor put a loaded gun on the table last year. A simple inconvenience for a LOT of safety.
We would also require you to open the action and have a Open chamber Indicator in the gun.
Inconvenience maybe, lot more safe definitely.
I disagree that it is a LOT of safety. something that happened once?

Glen Ring
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Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:45 pm

Re: Safety Procedures/Rules

Post by Glen Ring » Wed May 22, 2019 11:04 am

Brent...ONCE is too often.
We'll have a super safe range. Those that don't want to comply with the safety rules can shoot elsewhere.
I have seen too many bad things happen with guns and highly trained professionals that were in their prime.
In this era of litigation we intend to limit our culpability, and that of our gun club, by demanding safety.
All hail Don, the stirrer of the pot , writer of self-promoting Novellas and decliner of challenges.

bryany
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Location: Casper, Wyoming

Re: Safety Procedures/Rules

Post by bryany » Wed May 22, 2019 11:21 am

Isn't under the table still at "the table"
“I wonder if God created man because He was disappointed with the monkey.” Mark Twain

Glen Ring
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Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:45 pm

Re: Safety Procedures/Rules

Post by Glen Ring » Wed May 22, 2019 11:39 am

Good point Brian...but it's out of reach and maybe that extra step will help. There isn't such a thing as being too safe. On top of the table exposed , unexposed on the table, under the table. Maybe on the table not exposed may be a good compromise.
All hail Don, the stirrer of the pot , writer of self-promoting Novellas and decliner of challenges.

BFD
Posts: 1915
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:36 pm

Re: Safety Procedures/Rules

Post by BFD » Wed May 22, 2019 11:46 am

Glen, I respectfully disagree. We would a be a LOT safer if we stayed home, beat our guns into plowshares, and stayed in bed.

All things have trade offs. If you don't consider them, then you are not doing anyone a service.

I see a lot of this sort of "can't be too safe" thing going on in universities to the point that not much of anything can be done. If you think it has no negative impact, you are mistaken.

Dennis Armistead
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Re: Safety Procedures/Rules

Post by Dennis Armistead » Wed May 22, 2019 1:19 pm

If no ammo at the table is going to be the rule, so be it. I agree with safety, but several RSO's will have to be constantly walking behind the line reminding shooters throughout the match. I for one generally fall into a habit of doing my cleaning/adjusting chores after doing it for many years. Just my 2 cents.
Dennis
Experience trumps intelligence every time.

art ruggiero
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Re: Safety Procedures/Rules

Post by art ruggiero » Wed May 22, 2019 1:48 pm

what experienced shooter leaves the line with a loaded fire arm??? art

BFD
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Re: Safety Procedures/Rules

Post by BFD » Wed May 22, 2019 1:54 pm

art ruggiero wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 1:48 pm
what experienced shooter leaves the line with a loaded fire arm??? art
And having done so, what rule would have prevented him from doing it in the first place? It's not a rule that is needed because, it won't be a rule that prevents it. Reminds me of the no-gun zones preventing murderers.

If one wanted a significant safety improvement, make it necessary to not only have muzzles up, but muzzles above head-height.

Going to nationals I see all kinds of muzzles pointing at their cart-driver's chin, not to mention muzzles down. Guns in carts are "safe" so muzzle direction isn't important, apparently. :roll:

Aviator
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:06 pm

Re: Safety Procedures/Rules

Post by Aviator » Wed May 22, 2019 2:23 pm

Seems to me that if the action is open with a indicator flag in the the chamber, then having ammo under the table is really no more safe than having ammo on the table.

Glen Ring
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Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:45 pm

Re: Safety Procedures/Rules

Post by Glen Ring » Wed May 22, 2019 2:25 pm

All good points I guess.
I come from a very structured background concerning firearms. An ounce of prevention is worth a Pound Of cure. I have seen what happens when folks get careless with firearms.
The effectiveness of rules can be argued. The Placement of good safety rules can save lives and mitigate the time one spends in court if an event happens at a range.
I ask anyone that argues against safety rules to provide me with a document making THEM criminally ,civilly, and financially responsible for anything that happens at a match I'm running. I have never had anyone provide me with a document that agrees to that.

I have faced a million dollar lawsuit in Federal court , that was dismissed on the first hearing, due to good Policy and procedure, plus good records.

Jeanne and I have spent two lifetimes in Federal and State court. We have seen almost 60 years of civil and criminal cases resolved in both state and federal court.
I think asking shooters to CLOSE their cartridge boxes , while maintaining their firearm, is very reasonable and I agree with Bryan it's a good compromise.

We will continue to have safe matches with good rules in place.
All hail Don, the stirrer of the pot , writer of self-promoting Novellas and decliner of challenges.

Coltsmoke
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Re: Safety Procedures/Rules

Post by Coltsmoke » Wed May 22, 2019 4:58 pm

Glenn, I don't think you are addressing the root of the problem. Sounds like to me someone brought a loading rifle from the firing line back to a table behind the lines. There is no reason for anyone to load a rifle sitting on the table, I've never seen or heard of anybody doing that. I think the problem is at the firing line. My solution is this, the rifle is brought to the firing line with a chamber flag in the chamber and the rifle leaves the firing line with a chamber flag. The rifle at the table has a chamber flag in it unless you are cleaning the barrel, when you finish cleaning the barrel the chamber flag goes back in. I've got to have my ammo on the table to take out what I need and move it to the smaller box that I'm going to take to the firing line.

I deal with more safety rules at work everyday than most people would believe. So many that sometimes it almost makes doing your job impossible. I'm all for safety, I expect anybody where I'm shooting to call any unsafe behavior or condition to my attention and I will do the same. I do not want to deal with safety rules that do not address the problem that they are created for.

If you have a shooter loading a rifle at the table, he needs to be banned from the range, period!
Swamp Man Shelby Stanza for President!!

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