Shiloh Rifle Forums

Glenn,

Not to disparage your past background in law enforcement, but I have seen more safety rules broken by (professional) police departments that we allowed on our range for their qualification requirements. It got so bad we had to ban them from the range.
You have to remember that a shooting range/venue is inherently a dangerous place. It is up to the range officers/members/participants to police all venues to see that all safety precautions are adhered to. If one sees a blatant disregard of safety rules, that person should be banned from the club. It only takes a few of these banishment's that make members think twice about safety issues.

You have to use common sense in rule making. Erst we'll make our sport a thing of the past.................Flame on.............

I can't think of a single bpcr match whether it be gong, target rifle or silly wet, that the main rule after eye and hearing protection mandatory on the line, was actions open with an OBI inserted until the rifle was in the sticks and pointed down range, with actions opened and OBI inerted on the way back behind the line.
The safety rules outlined in previous national match bulletins fairly well lay it out, and would be good for all "matches" that don't have any such rules to adopt.

We do the normal safety rules but occasionally someone has a brain fart. We're all only flesh and blood. I try to be a nice guy and have rules in place to cover our rear in the event someone tries to chamber a round to see if it fits...Yep..it happens.
Any gun with a closed action should be considered loaded.

We will have a rule at our range of no uncovered ammunition at the cleaning table . My goodness, Closing an ammo storage lid while you service your gun is a problem?? .

Good gunsmiths and armorers have a golden rule of NO ammo on the table while working on a firearm. Most classrooms , when teaching firearms related skills, have a No ammo in the class room rule.

Good , solid safety rules that are enforced can go a long way to preventing mistakes.


Our rules are simple..Muzzle UP, Chamber flag inserted, and I like the compromise of No uncovered ammo at the cleaning table.
I agree with you that anyone that takes issue with safety rules and violates them should be asked to leave but we come from legal backgrounds...and if there is not a rule in place that prohibits the action , then we can't take action against that person. .

A rule that prohibits any uncovered ammunition in an area where guns are being handled sounds like a good, common sense rule. If someone tries a round in the chamber behind the line, Like I saw this weekend, and if they are clear that is a rule violation , when they are given their Due process, we stand on solid ground. ( my English teacher would be unhappy with my sentence structure..but you get the idea.)

Jim..I was a full time Range guy at our department for 18months and I know EXACTLY what you mean. ! I had so many complaints on enforcing safety rules. I can tell many tales of ad's and down right stupidity with firearms. . I have seen some bone headed things done by tactical team guys, FBI tactical guys..etc. If They make mistakes then rules are put into place to help prevent those from happening again. I witnessed two ad's while at the range full time. The dumb asses that almost killed two Police officers were never reprimanded...but the PROCEDURES I had in place at the range were scrutinized. I had solid rules, the offenders were VERY aware of the rules and my video that they signed off on showed they were shown the rules MANY times.
Good safety rules in place that the shooters are aware of makes everyone happy..and safe.

Rules will never protect against brain farts. Never

Your 3rd sentence says it all.

I agree Brent....but they will protect ME and Jeanne in a lawsuit. If I have a rule in place and someone violates that rule and their action results in something bad happening...I have no qualms about testifying against them in a civil , criminal or both, proceeding.

The last thing I would worry about is a ammo box on the cleaning table or ammo in a range box like Brent showed. I seen cross sticks fall because of the 3" spike rule in sandy soil some loaded and during cleaning between shots then the person picks the rifle up and lays it over his lap to clean the muzzle.
If someone sticks a round in the rifle behind the line then that dumb ass should be kicked off the match.

on our range, the scorer must look through the barrel at the end of shooting, and before it is removed from the line.
actions must be open except on the line when the command is given
he then has to sign off on that on the scorecard.
this can also cover stuck bullets and other issues.
if there is a miss they have to sight through the barrel prior to the next shot.
this seems preferable to those empty chamber indicators that have become de rigeur.
bruce.

My friend just brought home 4 jars of ammo he got from a gunsmith who took them from unloaded guns. He sealed the lids and is going to display them at his range with a sign explaining them.

Having carried a firearm as a soldier, and LEO, including duty as a firearms instructor and now as chief range safety officer at my local club, I have seen some pretty dumb stunts pulled with firearms. We are all safety officers when around firearms for any reason. Regardless of any rule, we still have not found a way to eliminate "stupid". More rules are not always the answer. More awareness is.

Woody

PS: In February, I purchased a percussion double barrel shotgun at a well known auction house. When I checked, I found the right barrel was loaded and by the shape of the nipple, had been for a long time. Yes, the black powder was still viable. I did discuss the issue with the auction house.

Can't eliminate stupid, it is hard to do Woody. Every time we think we have it covered at work they hire a smarter idiot. We now have to guard machines not only to keep a hand from accidently being caught in a machine or torn off, but now we are guarding machines to keep people from doing it on purpose for a lawsuit and a big check. We are now placing a wire fence or lazer beams or light curtains that will stop a machine instantly if an employee enters the area. It is not only about accidents now, but it is also about protecting the company from an idiot that HR has hired.

I've heard of lawsuits at the ranges with payouts and understand Glenn's concern. I placed myself in a dangerous situation one time at our range and Jim Kidwell pointed it out instantly! Many thanks to Jim and Doug for looking out for our safety while we are having fun. We all have to watch out for each other.

Glen, what range is yours? CO

How much is too much ? I believe Woody had it covered with " More rules are not always the answer. More awareness is. ". Living in a country where 'another rule' ... 'another restriction' .. 'another law' ...just seem like minutes in the hour and for all this we havent stopped drink driving, drug driving, fatal car accidents, bad people killing good people etc etc.. I'm all for 'less is more'. We are all safety officers after all. Over-regulation ..can ..and often does lead to confusion or misinterpretation. Even if its in black and white...there is always someone that will perceive theres a red or blue one in there somewhere. I think most of us have witnessed and/or been the centre of a potential safety issue at one stage or another. I've been grateful on those occasions to have someone bring it to my attention or remind someone of a safer way to do things. We dont get it right every time...none of us.

J.B.

CO
The Oklahoma City Gun Club in Arcadia Oklahoma.
We have a good looking silhouette range with air reset targets out to 500 meters.
Clean restrooms for both men and women, trailer parking 50 meters behind the firing line and LOTS of hotels and restaurants nearby.
We try to maintain the safest range possible and still have a GREAT time that includes side matches.

We will have a BPCR Regional and Lever action Regional on consecutive weekends in September.
The events will be ran by Jeanne, my wife, who possesses the best organization skills I have ever witnessed.

We do not tolerate Drama or unsafe behavior...shooting should safe and fun.

"A rule that prohibits any uncovered ammunition in an area where guns are being handled sounds like a good, common sense rule. If someone tries a round in the chamber behind the line, Like I saw this weekend"
So this happened at OKC Gun Club? What did the match director say when you told him about this ?

No one rule is going to makes us completely safe and no one "extra" rule is going to make us completely safe. Fortunately, we are a shooting sport that does a lot of self imposed safety on our self and to help watch for safety while we attend a match. The Match director and the line officer(s) only have one set of eyes and they need the help of all there to watch for things that could be or are a safety problem. It is not always a matter of "we can't fix stupid", sometimes we are upset or excited about a relay we just came off of and we turn off our brain for a moment. Again, fortunately we work with a spotter and at larger matches we can also have scorers there looking on also. One of the little extra duties of a spotter/scorer is to keep the shooter safe.

Shooting smokeless ammo like in lever gun silhouette, there is usually no need to go back to a "cleaning area", usually no reason to de-prime cases for prep and usually no reason to clean one's rifle between relays.

However, ammo for the BPCR silhouette being on the table is somewhat different from other games shot. We are usually required to just have the amount of ammo we need for a relay on the line with us. Most of us have a separate line ammo box we use to fill that requirement. After shooting, because of the erosive factor of BP, most (but not all) will de-prime their cases at their table and put them in a cleaning solution jar to let them soak to be ready to go in the cleaning tumble when we get home. Again, due to the black powder, most will also do some quick cleaning of their barrel. (There are a few shooters that shoot "dirty" for the whole match.) Because of that we need to do to get ready for the next relay, it has to be done in relative short period of time to return to the line to spot or shoot. It is handy, necessary and not in my opinion unsafe to have my loaded ammo near by on the cleaning table to fill my line ammo box back up to get ready. Having an ammo box on the ground also adds to the chance of dirt getting on my ammo, dirt tends to work like sand paper in a barrel and the reason I also close the lid on my loaded ammo box when done even when it is on the table. To have the loaded ammo up and on a table near my shooting box makes in this case more sense and the common practice around the BPCR game at all the ranges I have attended.

It has always been the practice of our group if a shooter needs for some reason to check their rifle with a loaded round, a shooter is always to go to the shooting line for safety to do it.

I have no problem using an OBI and if that is rule at that range, I will follow it without complaint. When at Raton you can usually see two to three OBIs on the ground as a shooters moves to one position to another especially when we ask shooters to hold "muzzle up" when they carry their rifle to the next position or cleaning area. Luckily, we are shooting single shot rifles and they are easy to look at to see if the action is open and down whether a OBI is there or not.