38-70

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SSShooter
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38-70

Post by SSShooter » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:56 pm

Anyone had any success shooting a 38-70? Wasn't DanT campaigning a 38-70 when he met his untimely end?
Glenn

Jim Kidwell
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Location: Georgia

Re: 38-70

Post by Jim Kidwell » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:54 pm

That and the 38-72. Dan, Doc Lay and I built 38-72's for long range on Dan's reamer design. We had custom dies made with the same reamer. Dan reversed engineered the round based on Hornady's 405 brass. We used Pac-Nor barrels. It was a trek that was expensive and not rewarding. All three of us had mixed results. Later we found there was an error with the reamer. Oh well. A lesson learned. Dan then proceeded with the 38-70 and had good luck with it.
....................................Jim
You are a ghost driving a meat covered skeleton made from stardust riding a rock floating through space.
Fear nothing. (anon)……………………

mdeland
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Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: 38-70

Post by mdeland » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:58 pm

I built a 38-70 on a Uberti action I worked over and had Dan help me with a bullet design but to this day I have not thoroughly worked up a good load for it ,not shooting long range or even midrange any more, up here, since the venue dried up.
I need to get back on it but have been side tracked the last few years making several smaller caliber Clang and bang guns. I have always felt the round should be a winner with the long, heavy, high BC bullets.

BFD
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Re: 38-70

Post by BFD » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:03 pm

Jim Kidwell wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:54 pm
That and the 38-72. Dan, Doc Lay and I built 38-72's for long range on Dan's reamer design. We had custom dies made with the same reamer. Dan reversed engineered the round based on Hornady's 405 brass. We used Pac-Nor barrels. It was a trek that was expensive and not rewarding. All three of us had mixed results. Later we found there was an error with the reamer. Oh well. A lesson learned. Dan then proceeded with the 38-70 and had good luck with it.
What was the error? Perhaps that is why my .38-72 never shoots well. What is the story?

beltfed
Posts: 1842
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Location: Central Wi

Re: 38-70

Post by beltfed » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:40 pm

Indeed,
I , too would like to hear the "real story" on 38-72s. I still have Dan T's reamer and a set of dies,
tho I sold my rifle/ Krieger 10 twist barrel.
It has been said that the 38-72 is too over bore powder capacity for the caliber.
Now, lately, I came into a 10 twist 38-50. Just Had to try it.
Early results so far at 200yds, indicate possible minute of angle ability.
Need to get a scope on it as my visual acuity with the Irons is waning.
Also, NEED to have a DDEPP bullet cut for it.
beltfed/arnie

SSShooter
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Location: Jersey Shore

Re: 38-70

Post by SSShooter » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:29 pm

My reason for asking is I have a 12" twist x 30" Lilja #4 weight barrel in 38-70. Been thinking of setting it back 1" and having it rechambered in 38-50. Obtaining brass for the 38-50 will be easier than for the 38-70 (30-40 Gov't versus .405 Hornady). CH4D offers dies for both.
The relative capacities of 38cal cartridges are (in gr's of H20):
38-55 - 52.72 (identical to the 40-50SS).
38-50 - 60.92. +15.5%
38-70 - 70.10. +15.1%
38-72 - 76.86. +9.6%
38-90 - 109.64. +42.6+

For comparison the 40-65 capacity is 68.52 and the 45-70 is 75.51.
Glenn

BFD
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:36 pm

Re: 38-70

Post by BFD » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:37 pm

I think I heard somewhere that someone, maybe Hornady, was going to make 405 brass again. Somewhere fairly recent. You might check.

.30-40 brass is not exactly growing on trees either, but I would like to try that cartridge and I think a 12 twist is perfect. Moritz uses one and his results aren't too bad (heavily understated).

mdeland
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Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: 38-70

Post by mdeland » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:22 pm

I made all my 38-70 brass from Starline 45-90 cases. Still have a reamer or two in that chambering.

SSShooter
Posts: 2670
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Location: Jersey Shore

Re: 38-70

Post by SSShooter » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:20 am

Cruising a few websites of the 'usual suspects' it is easy to find both 30-40 Gov't/Krag and 45-90 brass from Win, R-P & Starline. .405 cases....... not so much. Even Gunbroker does not have much in the way of used .405 and any new I see is Bertram, which means when current stock is gone there will be no more.
Glenn

John Bly
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Location: Stephens City, VA

Re: 38-70

Post by John Bly » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:44 am

Reeder Custom Guns had about 20,000 rounds of Hornady 405 bulk brass. I got 200 rounds several weeks ago and I was told it was going fast. phone # 928-527-4100. I hope this is not out of line. I'm not selling just providing info.
"Perfection consists not so much in doing extraordinary things as in doing ordinary things extraordinarily well"

SSShooter
Posts: 2670
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:06 am
Location: Jersey Shore

Re: 38-70

Post by SSShooter » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:23 am

BFD wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:37 pm
............but I would like to try that cartridge and I think a 12 twist is perfect. Moritz uses one and his results aren't too bad (heavily understated).
Yes, I agree on the 38-50 choice and most likely will cut down the Lilja 12" twist barrel an inch (or so) and chamber in 38-50.

Does anyone out there have a DanT spec 38-50 reamer they would be willing to rent? Would prefer to avoid the $170 to have new one ground by Manson for a single use.
Glenn

beltfed
Posts: 1842
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Location: Central Wi

Re: 38-70

Post by beltfed » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:22 pm

Re. 38-50 reamer.
Don't know if they are Dan T reamers,
1. I just measured a chamber cast of a friend's 38-50,
that was fit and chambered by Steve Durren, Michigan. I like the design.
2. Also, my own 38-50 was fit and chambered by Mike Lewis. Very similar chamber dimensions compared to the
"Steve Durren" cut chamber. I do know that my 38-50 , along with my 32-40RH and my 35-55 barrel were all built
for a friend that had bought them from Dan T or at least guided into them by Dan. Dan had many of his projects
done by Mike Lewis.
There is an interesting nuance on the Steve Durren chamber: It has a two step leade from what amounts to the "I.D." of the chamber stop.
Both are Grease groove chambers/no freebore, what with PLus/Minus 0.377-0.378 Fire formed case I.D. from each of the rifles.
I am now working on DDEPP(DualDiamterEllipticalPP) bullets for mine and my friend's rifles. Difference will be mainly in
lengths for his 12 twist vs. my 10 twist barrels.

I frankly doubt Mike or Steve would rent out their reamer, but both of them are good 'smiths
to do the job.
beltfed/arnie

SSShooter
Posts: 2670
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:06 am
Location: Jersey Shore

Re: 38-70

Post by SSShooter » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:25 pm

beltfed wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:22 pm
...............Mike or Steve would rent out their reamer, but both of them are good 'smiths to do the job.
beltfed/arnie
Indeed. Both have built rifles for me in the past and have made arrangements for Mike to chamber the barrel for me this fall.
Glenn

mdeland
Posts: 11544
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: 38-70

Post by mdeland » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:12 pm

This is the bullet Dan helped me with in the ogive profile. It has the mini grease grooves and weights 384 grains if I remember correctly. Never did get around to working up a load for it.
Image
Here are two other designs I've had mixed results with.
Image
The one on the right goes about 370 grains and I forget what the other weighed.

SSShooter
Posts: 2670
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:06 am
Location: Jersey Shore

Re: 38-70

Post by SSShooter » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:49 pm

That 384gr bullet looks very interesting. Currently have a 360gr & 325gr BACo Money and a Brooks 340gr. All cast nice bullets. Know a couple of folks who do well with a 370gr mold from our retired CA mold maker that they shoot well.
Glenn

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