More Paper Patch

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SSShooter
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More Paper Patch

Post by SSShooter » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:46 pm

Just starting on this PP journey and mic'd my 8# Seth Cole paper. It's coming out at 0.0012. So....... 4 layers would be 0.005" to take off of my bore diameter for the bullet. Do I have the match correct?
Glenn

martinibelgian
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Re: More Paper Patch

Post by martinibelgian » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:13 pm

Best measumerement is to take a bullet, measure it, then do a double wrap, and measure again. That will take into account stretch, and be much more accurate.

Kenny Wasserburger
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Re: More Paper Patch

Post by Kenny Wasserburger » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:10 pm

Glen,

What caliber you wanting to patch, and the barrel maker?

Kenny W.
We'll raise up our Glasses against Evil Forces, Singing, Whiskey for my men, Beer for my horses.

Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter

SSShooter
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Re: More Paper Patch

Post by SSShooter » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:31 pm

Kenny - 38cal with a Shilen barrel. 29" long with a 12" twist. Have not slugged the barrel as of yet, but their stated spec's are 0.375" x 0.367".

The problem with patching a bullet and measuring one is I do not yet have a PP bullet mold. Would rather know everything I can on barrel dimensions, paper thickness, etc., to help determine which mold to order. Don't want to waste my $160 + shipping on the wrong mold.
Glenn

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bpcr shooter
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Re: More Paper Patch

Post by bpcr shooter » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:41 pm

Are you going to dry patch or wet??

.0048 for 2 wraps and a .367 bore I would try .361 mold and cast a bullet at 16-1 for target use. added tin should fill the mold well and not shrink much. I would slug just to confirm the specs before you buy a mold though!!
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Glen Ring
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Re: More Paper Patch

Post by Glen Ring » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:24 pm

Well..I think I may want to try this paper patch thing. I have a 40-65 and 45-70. Where and what kind of bullet mold do I need to buy??
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.

beltfed
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Re: More Paper Patch

Post by beltfed » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:37 pm

A person could wrap the paper around a 3/8" rod to see how muchadded by the given paper
beltfed/arnie

Kenny Wasserburger
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Re: More Paper Patch

Post by Kenny Wasserburger » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:27 pm

Glen SSS I understand that totally.

Wet patching, with the Seth Cole paper will add about .0045 to .0047 to your total bullet diameter. Dry patching will add a good bit more, with the same paper. I would order a .367 push through die from Lee. Then you can size the patched bullet to bore and you should have good results.

Wet patching a .445 bullet will put it right at .4495 for My heavy Tolloffson rifle. A .446 bullet makes for a .4505 bullet in my Shiloh LRE the hell bitch. I like my pp bullets about .0005 over bore after patching. They do require some thumb pressure.

My theory is this, the closer to bore your Cast slug is, before patching, the less bump up required, means less lead moving to fill to the groove depth, and means better accuracy.

I use rubbing alcohol in my distilled water for patching, and dry on a coffee warmer, it takes some of the sizing out of the paper gives it a bit of a nap to the paper. It strips beautifully at the muzzle in my experience. A .361 or .362 mould will work well.

Kenny W.

I would ask Brent‘s advice on Dry patching, he does it rather well.
We'll raise up our Glasses against Evil Forces, Singing, Whiskey for my men, Beer for my horses.

Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter

SSShooter
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Re: More Paper Patch

Post by SSShooter » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:00 pm

Thanks to all. Also heard from Gerald (Coltsmoke) and his suggestion (which I will follow) is to use a bore diameter expander plug to test wrap and measure the increase in size. As I have several 38cal expander plugs I'll give this a go.

Kenny - I'll start with wet and use your coffee warmer drying method to start. Have all winter to play with this, so should be better than knocking back drinks in the local bar (which would probably kill me, so I won't). Am sure we'll get the odd windless day over the winter when I can shoot some 300yd test groups.

Have to order a small architect's square and 45 degree triangle so can cut the paper neatly. Hope I can be trusted with a Xacto knife these days.
Glenn

BFD
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Re: More Paper Patch

Post by BFD » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:09 pm

SSS,
You can wrap anything round. A drillbit shank, an Exacto knife handle, a ballpoint pen, or even a grease groove bullet (but who would have one of those lying about?). Measure exactly the same place before and after.

I do not find any appreciable difference in wet vs dry patch diameters. I have done both extensively with Eaton 9# paper and they both patch easily and seem equally accurate and the same size.

MikeT
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Re: More Paper Patch

Post by MikeT » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:02 pm

SSShooter,
Buffalo Arms has brass templates for various calibers.
A 45 degree angle on the patch is too pointy.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

opencountry
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Re: More Paper Patch

Post by opencountry » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:27 pm

BFD wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:09 pm
SSS,
I have done both extensively with Eaton 9# paper and they both patch easily and seem equally accurate and the same size.
I have been shooting pp for many years with much success, thanks to the great help from this forum's members. All of the tips above are really good ones! Wrapping bullets gets easier the more practice you get. PP is all I shoot anymore. I settled on 9# paper, 100% cotton, 25%/75% cotton/wood, and 100% wood. My rifles are Shiloh's, both .45 calibers. I had a Money bullet mold made for me through Buffalo Arms, measuring .444. I cast 16:1 because it makes near-perfect bullets, and I also gleaned this mix from Frank Seller's book. The bullet's bases are absolutely perfect. I run the bullets up through a .443" Lee bullet sizer die with a little Imperial wax applied. Now we have a perfect bullet. When I wrap two wraps around this bullet with 9# paper I get a .448" bullet, a very nice fit in a Shiloh 'heavy' barrel, and a snug fit (which I prefer) in a 16# Shiloh bull barrel. I have found some good tools to help me make near-perfect paper patches. I bought a stainless steel patching template through Buffalo Arms. I filed one of the ends of the template shorter and shorter until my wrapped ends 'met' precisely with two wraps around the bullet. I use a 'Fiskars' brand rotary paper trimmer to cut the bullet wrapping paper into 1" wide strips. (On the 530-grain bullet the 1"-wide paper patch tucks @3/16" under the bullet's base, and 'just' reaches up above the ogive of the bullet above.) Next I lay the stainless steel patching template on the 1" strips and lay out the patch. I also have a 'Fiskars' bypass paper trimmer to cut the parallelogram patches with. Both of these tools are cheap, and do a great job in short order. I wrap dry, just because I like it. My 45-90 heavy and 45-110 bull put five shots into one ragged hole at 100, and ten shots into the 10-ring at 200...on a calm day with MVA tang and globe sights. Kenny taught me from the get-go that powder compression was 'everything'. It really turned the tables for me, immediately. I'm happy to say I took a 300,400, and 600-yard trophy against the guys shooting greasers back in 2012. The closest fella behind me placed a perfect shot in the middle of the 'X' at 1,000 on the last relay, and took the title from me that day at 1,000. I really have confidence with pp shooting. I thought to myself, if they could do it back then I can learn to do it too.
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BFD
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Re: More Paper Patch

Post by BFD » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:44 pm

opencountry wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:27 pm
...I thought to myself, if they could do it back then I can learn to do it too.
Yes, you sure can. Anyone can, who is willing to try. This is a simple way to shoot that works very well. It is NOT black magic.

beltfed
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Re: More Paper Patch

Post by beltfed » Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:36 pm

Kenny W,
Is that Seth Cole paper you mention the 55W or the 55Y?
thanks
beltfed/arnie

beltfed
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Re: More Paper Patch

Post by beltfed » Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:50 pm

Instead of a template, I cut the paper strips to length
at a 30 degree angle with a paper cutter.
I taped a "30,60,90 degree drafting triangle to the paper cutter
so that I can simply mark off the desired length and slide the
paper strips along the edge of the triangle while cutting off
the parallelograms.
(usually about 4 layers of paper in the strip, stapled
together at each end of the 8-9" strip to hold them together
while cutting. Goes very quickly compared to cutting one at a
time by hand using the template.
As said, 45 degrees is too pointy- a PITA.
30 degrees works nicely.
beltfed/arnie

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