Winds at 1000 yards

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Gamerancher
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Winds at 1000 yards

Post by Gamerancher » Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:32 pm

So, to avoid hijacking the other thread, thought I'd open a new one.
Replying to Brent and desert deuce's comments.
I believe dbm is talking about the muzzle-loading individual competition, where there is no discussion/coaching allowed, you are on your own. Also, it is very hard to get a "cadence" going when you have to get up off the ground , walk 10 yards back to your reloading station, reload, walk back ,get in position, read/remember conditions , waiting your turn, then firing without unduly holding up the next bloke. It is all pretty new to me and a very steep learning curve coming from a silhouette background. Brent, I know you know this.

At the recent Worlds at Bisley, conditions at the 1000 yard line were predominantly an 8 to 12 minute left to right wind, clearly indicated by every flag visible in your field of view, during my relay I had shots landing just at the 4/5 ring line at 6.30/7 o'clock, followed by a complete miss, then back into the "group" with the next shot or two, then a miss and so on, without a sight change or any change of conditions that I could see.
After my relay I was scoring the next one and had a local Englishman sitting beside me. I was trying hard to keep an eye on the conditions, looking for the changes that I had missed while shooting, the bloke next to me quietly to himself says, "No, don't shoot", about 5 or six shooters fired their shots, including the one I was scoring for, and all shots were misses. I asked him what he was looking for that made him make that call, he turned and pointed behind us, two flags were pointing straight down range, he said all of those shots would have gone straight over the top. I was sitting in a chair and felt no wind coming from behind so there was no way you could feel it lying on the mat. The firing line was just over the top of a rise and the targets are downhill from there , maybe 30 yards lower? The flags he referred to were 100 yards behind us and on top of the rise. This fellow was a local shooter and went on to win the "original" class with I believe a higher score than Gullo's win in the "replica" class. Just wish I had learned that lesson before I had shot.
With my health issues and after five days of getting up and down every shot, I felt like I had ridden every bronc at the Calgary Stampede, I think I'll stick to cartridge rifles. :lol:
Out in western NSW where it don't rain much.
Australia

Glen Ring
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Re: Winds at 1000 yards

Post by Glen Ring » Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:05 pm

Interesting Daniel.

Please explain what the course of fire is and rules for muzzeloaders at 1000 yards. Are the guns used like the Pedersoli Gibbs rifles? What caliber is the best etc.
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.

Gamerancher
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Location: Central NSW Australia

Re: Winds at 1000 yards

Post by Gamerancher » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:34 pm

G'day Glen,
The coarse of fire is what dbm said in his post on Kenny's thread. 3 convertible sighters , 15 shots for score, long range. Your first sighter starts when you hit paper.
I watched a French shooter, ( a couple of years ago when Australia hosted the shoot ), fire about 15 shots before he got on paper. I was only a spectator, called in to catch up with Brent and Dave mainly. I was on my way home from our silhouette Nationals in our island state of Tasmania. A two day detour seemed preferable to the usual flight over to the U.S.
Gullo is the reason I took it up, it's all his fault, "Why aren't you shooting?" he asked. "Get yourself a rifle and get to Bisley in 2 years " he said. :lol:

I'm only new to it, Brent is far more experienced and qualified to answer your queries. I bought the Pedersoli Gibbs long range in .45 calibre. That's what Dave advised, we also don't have much choice down here anyway. I rang the local importer, he had a shipment of 6 coming in and 5 were spoken for so I claimed the last one.
After a lot of reading and a few long phone conversations with Dave, ( as well as a new B.A bullet mold, lube sizing dies, wads, etc..) I headed out the back padlock to try my hand at this muzzle-loading caper. I found it not a lot different to cartridge, you just reload one at a time and there's no case to clean, seemed alright. :D Took the rifle away and shot some competitions with the boys from the Buffalo Rifle Association of Australia against cartridge guns and travelled to as many muzzle-loading shoots as I could find and was pleased with how it went.
Anyway, I put my name in for selection for the Aussie team to go to Bisley for the World Long Range Muzzle-loading Titles, followed all of the qualifying procedures, shot good enough scores to get considered and after a couple of other blokes withdrew was lucky enough to get into the team.

The trip to Bisley was as big an eye opener as my first trip to Raton. When you've only had a couple of years with the type of gun, there is much to be learned from those with many years of experience.
All shooting is done from the prone position using a jacket and sling, no cross-sticks. Shooting with a jacket and sling is totally new to me, a home made sling and an internet bought jacket that sort of fits aren't ideal but they got me going.
You shoot from 300, 500 and 600 yards for mid-range, 3 convertible sighters, 10 shots for score. Long range is 900 and 1000 yards, as I stated above, 3 convertible sighters, 15 shots for score. Targets vary in size, can't remember what they are. Scoring rings are 5,4,3,2 with a centre X.
At Bisley, a time limit of 1hr 45min for score was what we were given and once in the firing position you had 45 seconds to fire your shot, although I didn't see this rule enforced. We had 4 shooters per target. No talking, coaching or spotter is allowed in the individual event but you can in the team event. Here's at photo of my team mate Mark shooting his individual match at 900 yards. He set a new World record @ 500 yards with his Lee Shaver Ferris rifle in .45 calibre.
Mark 900yds.jpg
When I found out that were only shooting for five days I wondered if the trip was going to be worth it. A six hour drive to Sydney airport, a 4.5 hour flight to Perth, then a 17.5 hour flight to London is a long way to go for 5 days shooting. ( Makes the 15 hour flight to Dallas seem short.)
After 5 days of getting up and down for every shot I was GLAD it was only 5 days! Makes shooting silhouette positively relaxing.
Anyway, that's enough gas bagging from me and probably off topic from what I intended the thread to be, sorry folks. :oops:
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Out in western NSW where it don't rain much.
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Glen Ring
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Re: Winds at 1000 yards

Post by Glen Ring » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:57 pm

Thanks Daniel...that's interesting. I'll certainly pick your brain more this summer. I really like BPCR silhouette...but shooting a front stuffer out to 1000 yards really sounds like an enjoyable challenge.
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.

Gamerancher
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Location: Central NSW Australia

Re: Winds at 1000 yards

Post by Gamerancher » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:09 pm

Yes, I seem to be in regression. Started out in Scoped high power, back to lever-gun, back to bpcr, now I'm into muzzle-loading.... give me a couple more years I'll be throwing sticks and stones! :wink:
Out in western NSW where it don't rain much.
Australia

BFD
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Re: Winds at 1000 yards

Post by BFD » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:53 pm

Maybe we should start an atl-atl side match at Raton this summer.

Glen Ring
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Re: Winds at 1000 yards

Post by Glen Ring » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:18 pm

atlatl...Being a Primitive technology enthusiast, I have made several wood, stone, bone tools. The world record throwing the spear/dart is over 200 yards.
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.

Gamerancher
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:29 pm
Location: Central NSW Australia

Re: Winds at 1000 yards

Post by Gamerancher » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:20 pm

Yeah,........Nah,.......?????. you've got me there Brent.
Typo or am I missing something?
Out in western NSW where it don't rain much.
Australia

BFD
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Re: Winds at 1000 yards

Post by BFD » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:22 pm

Spear chucker, Daniel

Image

We would expect you to do in in period dress.

Gamerancher
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Location: Central NSW Australia

Re: Winds at 1000 yards

Post by Gamerancher » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:26 pm

Okay, I had to google it, I hate doing that.
The Australian Aborigine used a "woomera". Same principle.
Don't think my shoulders are up to it though.
Tried to bowl some balls for Blair to practice his batting for cricket,...big mistake.
Out in western NSW where it don't rain much.
Australia

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desert deuce
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Re: Winds at 1000 yards

Post by desert deuce » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:42 am

Danl how do you adjust for windage on a woomera?

At Raton, several years ago I was shooting next to Dan Theodore at 1,000 yards.
We both fired about the same time, both targets came up center hits.
We fired again almost simultaneously, both bullets struck well short of the targets by quite a lot, way more than ten minutes low.
Neither of us adjusted our sights and fired again, both targets came up center hits.
Neither of us saw any change in conditions.

Remember, the bullet spends a lot of time above the flags from the 1,000 yard line and you can only see what you can see. Once in a while at Raton one can see strange mirage on the number boards set on top of the impact berm. Such was not the case that day.

Lodi is the best range for gaining an appreciation for what happens above the flags I have shot on at 1,000 yards.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!

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Re: Winds at 1000 yards

Post by Kurt » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:05 am

DD
At Lodi you need a good scope that will see the mirage in the top canopy of tree line above the back stop.
Try that sometime.
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desert deuce
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Re: Winds at 1000 yards

Post by desert deuce » Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:04 pm

I did, the tree tops were moving so much no mirage was visible.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!

dbm
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Re: Winds at 1000 yards

Post by dbm » Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:41 pm

Glen Ring wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:05 pm
Please explain what the course of fire is and rules for muzzeloaders at 1000 yards....
Glen,

I have a bunch of articles on-line regarding Long Range Muzzle Loading that may help. If you browse my site you'll find a lot of historical stuff on muzzle and breech loading rifles of the black powder era.

David
www.researchpress.co.uk - www.facebook.com/researchpress
Firearms, long range target shooting and military history

Glen Ring
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Re: Winds at 1000 yards

Post by Glen Ring » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:40 pm

Thank you sir...I'll have reading material tonight.
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.

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