Is A Minute Always A Minute?

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Old-Win
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Is A Minute Always A Minute?

Post by Old-Win »

Was talking to a shooting buddy from Yuma a while back and we got on the topic of spotting and elevation at long ranges. The question was,
"how many times have you called or had a call of a one minute change in elevation and had it show up as 3 or 4 minutes on the target?" An example would be, you are at 12:00 in the nine ring and ask for one minute down and the next shot is in the 8 ring at 6:00. Maybe it is a backlash problem in the sight, but I don't think so. I always go down a little more than I need and then come back up to take the backlash out.. The last sight Sharps patented in 1877 had an elevation adjustment of 1/10". Just got me thinking.
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Don McDowell
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Re: Is A Minute Always A Minute?

Post by Don McDowell »

It's amazing what subtle changes in head/tail winds can do to bullet impact.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?
beltfed
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Re: Is A Minute Always A Minute?

Post by beltfed »

It has been known that (sometimes?) you make a one minute adjustment on your sight.
And another in your head as in a bit of a sub conscious favor
I saw it happen to myself and others at times in Hi Power service rifle shooting.
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mdeland
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Re: Is A Minute Always A Minute?

Post by mdeland »

I suspect a good bit of it is just misread on the staff in the heat of a relay. Like when you go the wrong direction.
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Re: Is A Minute Always A Minute?

Post by Gussy »

Not in my case. I have days that I measure groups in hours.

But, I sometimes have a hard time moving the sights as far as my spotter says. I'm not sure if it's a doubt of the load/shooter or wind.

It is very hard to impossible to move a minute and know positively that's what you need. Wind, load, light, shooter... Which one caused the minute??
John Bly
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Re: Is A Minute Always A Minute?

Post by John Bly »

Sometime conditions change when you are moving your sight. Don't chase errant shots. Develop a relationship with your spotter where you trust them on the call. Wait out a condition change if at all possible. Remember not all bullets strike dead center of your hold. There is a random dispersion of hits assumed to be on a mean radius from the center of hold. The better your rifle shoots the smaller will be the dispersion. And then sometimes in spite of all things looking well one of those gremlins will pop up and bite you in the ass.
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SSShooter
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Re: Is A Minute Always A Minute?

Post by SSShooter »

Don McDowell wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:10 pmIt's amazing what subtle changes in head/tail winds can do to bullet impact.
Especially as the distance get longer (rams, 600 - 1000yd).

As John said, if you can wait for "the condition" it will be a great help.
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Woody
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Re: Is A Minute Always A Minute?

Post by Woody »

In answer to the Subject line: YES. It's a math thing and unchanging, butttttt. :lol:
Remember not all bullets strike dead center of your hold. There is a random dispersion of hits assumed to be on a mean radius from the center of hold. The better your rifle shoots the smaller will be the dispersion.


One of the main reasons, I usually shoot at least five sighters. It helps to determine the "cone of dispersion" at a given distance, on a given day.

Since I usually shoot dirty, I get more info on the first sighter than those that clean between relays, PP excepted.

Woodt
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Old-Win
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Re: Is A Minute Always A Minute?

Post by Old-Win »

Yes, I see it at the longer distances from 800 to 1000 yards. My rifle has a tendency as the string goes on and the barrel warms up, that the shots slowly start climbing. Then it seems like when you want to make a correction and bring it down a little bit is when you see this take place. Another friend and I were talking the other night and he said the same thing. So many times when you make that 1 minute correction as John says, it comes up and bites you. We even brought up the possibility that since the arc of the bullet is so far out that possibly a minute on the sight creates a greater change on the paper. While on the line, I hear spotters from other teams give half minute corrections . I've told my spotter that hell, I don't even think I can hold a half minute at a thousand yards. When shooting scope, I can put the crosshairs on the X-Ring and as my heart beats I can see the crosshairs bounce into the 8 ring at 4 o'clock so I'm sure the same things happening when I don't shoot scope. You just don't see it. We are all bored and have talks on the phone as none of us have had a match yet this year.
art ruggiero
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Re: Is A Minute Always A Minute?

Post by art ruggiero »

excellent comment from john bly me too art
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Re: Is A Minute Always A Minute?

Post by bruce m »

John Bly wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:46 pm Sometime conditions change when you are moving your sight. Don't chase errant shots. Develop a relationship with your spotter where you trust them on the call. Wait out a condition change if at all possible. Remember not all bullets strike dead center of your hold. There is a random dispersion of hits assumed to be on a mean radius from the center of hold. The better your rifle shoots the smaller will be the dispersion. And then sometimes in spite of all things looking well one of those gremlins will pop up and bite you in the ass.
what he said.
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ventum est amicus meus
1minute
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Re: Is A Minute Always A Minute?

Post by 1minute »

The length of ones sight plane has a lot to do with the effects of a given adjustment.
1Minute
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