How much powder is practical for 45-70?

[Raven]

Ok so how much powder do you guys compress practically into a 45-70? I’m loading with Swiss 1.5 now and have 2 bullets I am working with: a Lyman Postell 530 gr and a 500 gr LRN. WIth the compression die I have from Shilo, 60 -65 gr is all I can load and I’m getting about 1238fps with the 500gr. Haven’t shot the 530gr but have some loaded with 60 gr 1.5.

I have ordered a new compression die from BACO and I’m hoping it will compress easier.

What say you experts? I also have some Swiss 2fg coming. How much do you all load and get accuracy in the Shilo Sharps 45-70?

[Michael Johnson]

Most of my best loads with 1.5 Fg Swiss and 3 Fg Swiss have been right around 68 grains. I believe you need that for respectable results on the Rams.The best by far have been with 3Fg. I started down that path with advice from Kelley Roos. It burns really clean with little fouling. Yes, it is compressed.

[martinibelgian]

Currently 74 grains, but much depends on the bullet and the rifle's throat. And the amount of compression, of course.

[bpcr shooter]

what do you mean by 60-65 gr is all you can get?? is the case full or are you bulging the case? With BPCR you will have to choose a bullet seat it out as far as you can, start with zero compression add a couple grains or just one if you like and shoot a group. Keep adding powder/compression until you find the sweet spot for that bullet/powder/primer/case/rifle. If you want more speed than that, your going to have to get more powder in there but, if accuracy goes south there is no point, so your then going to have to change bullet design\, ie reduced bands, PP, etc. And then your adventure starts over again!! if thats still not what your looking for, bigger case in in need.

By using a drop tube you should be able to get 70gr in pretty easy. WW cases are a little thinner and you can get a few more grains in those if you need

[bobw]

Yup, here is where the verbal war starts again. When you shoot grease groove bullets you sacrifice 15 to 25% of your potential powder space by using them. When you use patch to bore diameter bullets you can use up to and over 80 grains of powder. It depends on brand and lot# as well as what granulation you use and how much compression is involved. Brent Danielson shot over 80 grs with the old Swiss 1.5. I have as well. 70+ grs with 1.5 olde E and goex 2 fg easy to do. The facts are facts no matter how much some of the paper patch haters hate. Bobw

[Lumpy Grits]

How are you measuring your powder, weight or volume?
Always go buy weight.
Why do you feel a second compression die is the answer?
Gary

[MSalyards]

Yes, aren't they all the same?

[gunlaker]

Raven, if you want to increase the powder charge, one good way to do it is to use a bullet with one or more reduced driving bands. That way you won't need to compress quite so much. I compress Swiss up to nearly 0.3" for some loads, but usually less than that.

A BACO money bullet with one reduced driving band will increase capacity by a few grains. I'd try to be in the 68-69 range for the ram line, but that's my experience. I'm sure others will argue something completely different.

Chris.

[mdeland]

74 grains of Swiss 1.5 has also been my sweet spot for both of my match 45-70's using the 510 grain PJ Creedmoor . One a #5 Roller and the other a Falling Block Works High wall style action. Winchester is my preferred brass with this compressed load and just enough taper crimp to keep the bullet firmly seated.

[Coltsmoke]

Lyman Postel-68grs. Paul Jones Money bullet-76grs. Paper Patch Eliptical-83grs. How much can you take?

[Distant Thunder]

Back in the days before I discovered the superiority of bore diameter paper patch bullets I loaded the Lyman Postell in my old .45-70 using W-W brass, 72.0 grains of 1 1/2 Swiss, a .030 LDPE wad and Federal 210 primers.

These days in a different .45-70 with paper patch bullets I load 83.0 grains of 1 1/2 Swiss in Star Line brass with a .060 LDPE wad and Remington 2 1/2 LP primers.

So much depends on the design of the bullet and the chamber of your rifle that the best anyone can tell you is what works in their rifle, you need to learn how to properly load black powder and then apply those principles to your rifle and bullet. Your load will be similar in principle to that of others but particular to your rifle and bullet.

In my old .45-70 with the Lyman bullet I have compressed 1 1/2 Swiss from .030" to .300". More powder shot faster but the accuracy in my rifle was with 72.0 grains. Accuracy will trump velocity every time.

[Lumpy Grits]

Yes, aren't they all the same?

Weight vs volume are NOT the same.
Prove it with your scale.
OLG

[MSalyards]

Lumpy, I meant the compression dies!

[mdeland]

Have any of you ever tried 2-3 stage powder compression in the 45-70 instead of a drop tube?

[Kurt]

Have any of you ever tried 2-3 stage powder compression in the 45-70 instead of a drop tube?

A long time ago questions like this came up and I checked into this to see if any benefits are gained and where do they stop. I had some 4" PVC pipe laying around when I retired from plumbing so I split a length and halve (30') and hose clamped them back together and closed the far end with cardboard to catch the remnants of powder, wads, patch paper and just how much lube gets consumed using different hardness of lube wads.
At the time I shot a lot of Goex and it shot cleaner with some pretty heavy compression and most of my accuracy loads used between .350" too .400" so I started with those loads. I found a lot of unburned powder in the pipe using that much compression. I increased the compression by double compressing the loads .400" filled the case 1/2 full compressed and filled it again and another .400". I had to use a sizing die to hold the case while compressing the powder to hold the case sidewalls form bulging. I fired 5 rounds and split the pipe to see what was left behind.
I found lumps of unburned powder, it does not all consume when shot. But one interesting thing I saw was, the more compression the cleaner the bore. I think the unburned powder scrapped the bore passing through cleaning it.
One thing I wish I would have done is, shooting it through a chronograph to see if there was a point where the increase of velocity stopped. I know it's not at .500".
Kurt