32-20 at 300

[martinibelgian]

Today I shot the little 32-20 for the 1st time at 300m, a bit of a challenge of course.

1st Lesson learned is I need to chrono my load, actual sight setting vs. predicted was 5 minutes less - that's a lot! I had some PP loads, which were pretty erratic, and some GG's. Load details as follows:
151gr 30:1 RN GG bullet, seated on top of
card overpowder wad
18.4 grs of Swiss 1.5Fg
Federal LP primer

The rifle? BSA 12/15 action converted to CF, with a Lothar Walther .308 groove dia. barrel, 1/12 twist. All shooting was done on the European 300m rifle target, 10-ring about 1 1/2 MOA, and each ring an additional MOA. A custom midrange tang sight by Mike Neumann.

I started out with the PP loads, which were very erratic, and put me on the wrong track, made me think I was shooting low, so I started increasing elevation. Afterwards I came back to the original sight settings with the last 5 GG loads and finally got on paper - high, at the edge of the black. Got about 2 1/2 MOA vertically with 3 shots, then dropped the sights 5 minutes for the last shot, trying to go for the 10-ring. Nope, didn't work, shot was an 8 at 9 o'clock - at least the correct elevation, and windage-wise in the above-mentioned group.

Wiping with 1 humid patch, 1 dry, water this time - it seems that this rifle likes a dry, clean bore. Too wet, and it will throw fliers. I was afraid of leading, but shouldn't have worried, the bore cleaned up nicely, no leading detected.

In short, I now have a good starting point for further testing. But predicted sight elevation setting at 300m was 52.5 minutes, actual elevation was 47.5 - that's lot less. I guesstimated MV at around 1075 fps, it just might be quite a bit higher - 5 minutes less, that's a lot...

Didn't really shoot for group, but the rifle responded pefectly on-call to sight adjustments made, both windage and elevation. So I'm pretty confident I'm getting there. The only issue is spotting those teeny holes, of course. But still, it looks as if both rifle and cartridge are up to the task at 300m. I have enough elevation remaining to reach out to 400, but that's for later...

[cw50-70]

MB, it's going well for you. Next time take the chrono. It will be really interesting to know the numbers. Keep it up.

[mdeland]

Interesting, I've never done any real testing with the .357 Max past 200 yards and black powder which was initially the reason for chambering for the Max case. I need to get on the stick and see what she'll do.
Great post with the 32-20 and Cadet , you have inspired me again. Wonder how it would do with some 4F and a grease wad in that small case? Keep up posting of your progress in this most interesting work your doing !

[mdeland]

The wild cat I made on one of the Cadets I have uses the same 310 barrel and Cadet bullet but the case you may remember is full length .357 Max necked down and tapered a bit to .310 which is pretty close to what your using Gert. The extra case capacity should be helpful for Black powder use.
Your experiments with the 32-20 and black powder should be quite helpful and are most interesting to me. Keep up the good work and hopefully you can also get some chronograph dope to post!

[Glen Ring]

VERY Interesting. I an anxious to see what the 32-20 does out to 400 yards. The 357 max case necked down...is that about the same as a 30 Wesson??

[mdeland]

I don't know as I don't have a Wesson case to compare to it. This is one I invented, made a chamber reamer and loading dies for. It has a similar profile to 40-65 or 32-40 only scaled on a .357 Max case. I cut the chamber in a good .310 Cadet barrel, used the same reamer to cut the sizing and inline seating dies for it. I then fire formed a case,charged it with lapping compound and lapped the barrel chamber a bit larger so the sizing die would be smaller than the chamber to full length size the fired cases. Kind of a reverse engineered deal but it works great and is quite accurate at least to the 100 meter pig line I've tried it on. It uses the regular 120 grain .310 Cadet heeled bullets.
It was one of those wild hair ideas I tried as an experiment that turned out really well, surprise, that doesn't always happen with these deals!

[martinibelgian]

Using the JBM ballistic calculator, MV with the 151gr bullet would be around 1130 - 1140 fps, what I would consider pretty efficient for the amount of powder used .
The combo was originally designed for 100-200m target work, but it does seem to have more potential. FWIW the .30 wesson was also an option I considered, but alas, with proof houses and CIP specs, had to be ruled out. And yes, it actually is a .357 max. case tapered to .30.

Still, this little 32-20 is starting to grow on me - easy to cast for, easy to shoot, serious accuracy potential, and a pound of powder goes a long way, The 151gr bullet is my own design, cast in 30:1 alloy. Barrel is atypical for a 32-20, at a twist rate of 1:12. Actually a standard .308 barrel, so... Yes, it will also shoot 174gr. bullets, that"s on the list to try. That bullet is almost as long as the case itself .

Also, the little rifle feels a lot more 'natural', is easier to shoot than a full-size rifle at 12+ pounds - which also helps of course. Mind you, it is NOT a lightweight rifle, but even with a heavy-for-calibre barrel, it most certainly isn't 'clunky'.

[mdeland]

Can we get some pictures of your gun and a loaded round?

[martinibelgian]

Here she is:



For comparison, a 32-20 with 151 gr bullet next to a no. 2 Musket with 520gr. PP .458 bullet and 87 grs of powder... The sight is set for 300m, the barrel half octagon, with the top flat an integral scope rail. Front sight is a Parker-Hale, rear is a custom Mike Neumann Dr. Goodwin Style on a modified PH7A sight base. Originally, this was the action of a BSA 12/15 .22 target rifle, soit was also converted to CF. Buttstock wood is the original one, new forearm, oil finish by myself.

[GrumpyBear]

Pretty cool, thanks for sharing with us.

[Michael Johnson]

Classy looking rifle!

[Clarence]

Very nice; the small Martinis are a personal favorite!

Clarence

[mdeland]

I love the Cadets Gert, NICE rifle and well set up. Two questions, is that a Ruger 77 recoil pad and has the trigger been worked over? I just put an over travel stop in my .357 Mag Francotti/Cadet and have the trigger breaking cleanly right at 2 lbs. I don't thoroughly understand how the over travel stop works but it seems to aid the follow through in offhand work. We are not allowed to use slings or any artificial support at the clang and band although I do catch a few guys leaning against the bench to steady themselves on occasion and think it's perfectly fair to claim a win while doing so. We do have a special simultaneously occurring side match for people with disabilities that can use a tripod but they don't get to compete in the actual offhand match. Their scores are posted so they actually do get to compete against each other.
That bench leaning would get you disqualified in our regulation muzzle loading matches or at the Territorials.
Never could figure out the point of winning when not using a level playing field with in the set out rules.

[martinibelgian]

This rifle came with a modified trigger, with adjustable sear engagement and overtravel adjustment, at a crisp, clean 2 lbs.

[mdeland]

I don't know of anything with a faster lock time which is a definite accuracy advantage. I would still like to find one in good shape in the original caliber to play with. Thanks for the picture!