No spotter match

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Kenny Wasserburger
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Re: No spotter match

Post by Kenny Wasserburger »

Try the Money match....at Byers Colorado.


1000 yards no spotter been going on for years.

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Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter
Woody
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Re: No spotter match

Post by Woody »

Wish I could Kenny. Too far at this time. I did make a drive through match at Watkins in March, but I guess that will be my Western shooting for this year.

Was talking with Michael yesterday and he is planning on shooting in Byers this month.

Woody
Richard A. Wood
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Glen Ring
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Re: No spotter match

Post by Glen Ring »

Sounds like fun. We only have a 500 meter range at our Range and the only 1000 meter shooting we've done was with our 30-30's at the White buffalo in Raton.
Our Gun club just purchased a big chunk of adjoining land to make a 1000 yard range. Maybe with some sight settings to see where we are hitting...but for now, maybe just a silhouette match with no spotter.
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Distant Thunder
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Re: No spotter match

Post by Distant Thunder »

Kurt,

Nobody forces you have a spotter why would it be ok to force people to shoot without a spotter and by spotter I mean coach. I enjoy shooting both ways, but I would never have gotten into shooting matches if the rules did not allow a coach. I enjoy the team effort and I have learned a lot from some very good spotters that I never would have learn on my own. I have shot in a fair number of matches without a coach and I enjoy that type of match too, but not everyone would.

The person(s) running the match decide the rules and as long as everyone plays by the same rules I'm okay with it either way. There is no way ALL matches should be shot without coaching, you'd lose many of your shooters and the sport would suffer.

If you are an experienced shooter and spotter and you've never tried doing it all on your own you owe it to yourself to give it a try. It is challenging but it is also very rewarding. It is a very satisfying feeling when you shoot a good relay and you step away from the line knowing you did it all on your own, just you and your rifle against the wind!

Just one man's opinion.
Jim Kluskens
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BFD
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Re: No spotter match

Post by BFD »

Shooting a paper match without a spotter is no big deal and a lot of fun.

Shooting a steel match without a spotter sucks, and I would not bother.

But I think one of the reasons that bpc matches of all types has done well is because there is a lot of enjoyment in working with a good shooting partner. Whether shooting or spotting/windcalling, you are doing something and working with someone. That's what makes it fun. Without that we might as well turn in to the grumps that are highpower silhouette shooters. No thanks.
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Don McDowell
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Re: No spotter match

Post by Don McDowell »

BPTRA has a Rifleman class, you can shoot any match as a Rifleman, however you can't start the match as Rifleman, and then have somebody join in as a spotter, your score won't be counted.
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Woody
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Re: No spotter match

Post by Woody »

Without the experience being passed from spotter to shooter and from shooter to spotter, few would progress and stay the course to be successful. I didn't begin shooting well in silhouette or target rifle until I paired up with Michael Rix 20 years ago. We posted some impressive scores shooting together. He was the better, but I too shot some great scores. Since then, (I moved back to Indiana 14 years ago), I have shot with some great shooters and coaches. Michael Patterson and I were so bold as to plan to shoot in Kentucky with him shooting Irons and me shooting Scope to take both championships. We did!!!! Ken Pointer and I had some great matches together with his last National being his best finish at first AAA Iron. Many raised glasses after the shooting and many great meals, and many campfires. These friendships we form over the years are some of the most lasting and best I can imagen. Lately, I've been shooting in Friendship with Aviator, and Willie Pool and Jim Shride. Jim and I have been trying to pass some of our knowledge, (as good or bad as it may be), on to them, and it has been a very enjoyable journey. May we have many years more together.

Woody
Richard A. Wood
If you are surrounded. You are in a target rich environment.
Woody
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Re: No spotter match

Post by Woody »

Without the experience being passed from spotter to shooter and from shooter to spotter, few would progress and stay the course to be successful. I didn't begin shooting well in silhouette or target rifle until I paired up with Michael Rix 20 years ago. We posted some impressive scores shooting together. He was the better, but I too shot some great scores. Since then, (I moved back to Indiana 14 years ago), I have shot with some great shooters and coaches. Michael Patterson and I were so bold as to plan to shoot in Kentucky with him shooting Irons and me shooting Scope to take both championships. We did!!!! Ken Pointer and I had some great matches together with his last National being his best finish at first AAA Iron. Many raised glasses after the shooting and many great meals, and many campfires. These friendships we form over the years are some of the most lasting and best I can imagen. Lately, I've been shooting in Friendship with Aviator, and Willie Pool and Jim Shride. Jim and I have been trying to pass some of our knowledge, (as good or bad as it may be), on to them, and it has been a very enjoyable journey. May we have many years more together.

Woody
Richard A. Wood
If you are surrounded. You are in a target rich environment.
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Distant Thunder
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Re: No spotter match

Post by Distant Thunder »

As I said I enjoy the team aspect of a shooter/spotter match. I'll be the first to say that I am not the best spotter, I know what a very good spotter is I have shot with several of them over the past 23 years, but I have had some very good efforts behind the spotting scope. Those times when it all came together and I was lucking enough spot my shooter to a win or a personal best or just through some really tough conditions while he cleaned a bank of animals are among the best memories I have of my BPCR journey. I always strive to give my best effort whether I'm shooting, spotting or pulling targets. I like being part of a team, it doubles or triples my enjoyment of this great sport.

The other thing, which has been mentioned, that the shooter/spotter match does is it passes hard learned lessons on to others. I have never been turned away when I ask for help or asked for advise and I try to pass on what I have learn from those that helped me. When we do this we grow and strengthen our sport.
Jim Kluskens
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Glen Ring
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Re: No spotter match

Post by Glen Ring »

Jeanne and I have tried it both ways. With the spotter calling the shots and with the shooter calling the shot and the spotter just reflecting where the bullet went. I like it both ways but I've never shot a paper match. I was reading about a range in Pennsylvania I think that has 1000 yard varmint shoots at steel targets...sounds like fun with a Black powder rifle.
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Aviator
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Re: No spotter match

Post by Aviator »

As someone who is pretty new to BPCR competitions, I have been very lucky to have a couple of experienced and competent folks take an interest in helping a new guy (Woody is obviously one of them). And of course it hurts their scores to take on being partnered with someone who is basically clueless as a spotter/coach.....
It would have been pretty daunting, and a whole lot less fun, to have tried to figure it out without help. There is a high probability that I would have lost interest.

As a beginner, both in silhouette and target matches, I have sometimes been partnered with someone who was as clueless as I was, so basically was self-spotting, with no experience to draw on. Not unusual when you go to a range that you have never been to before, and don't know anyone. Can be very frustrating, and making progress is very difficult! Sure makes you appreciate the experienced ones who help the new guys!

Along the way (and I still have a long way to go), as you finally start making the connection between seeing clues to a wind change and correlating to a sight change call, I realized that making a good call and helping your shooter partner achieve a good score in tough conditions is (almost) as good a feeling as shooting well yourself! Definitely a team effort.

I have been to a couple long range target matches now where you are entirely on your own for condition reading, by design. At this point, I do enjoy the challenge of it, and have had some success! Definitely a good feeling when you start putting it all together! Of course, it can be frustrating not being about to tell your shooting partner about a change you see!

I sure am glad for the friendships that I have formed in the less than two years that I have been participating in BPCR target and silhouette! That really is the best part of this sport. I have never been very outgoing, and don't make friends that easily, but I have met some great folks in this sport.
DeadEye
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Re: No spotter match

Post by DeadEye »

Our group tried what we called Hunter Silhouette a few years back. Our experience was the same as Woody's; it lasted maybe three years and died a peaceful death. Without a spotter/coach in long range you at least have the pit marking your shot which you can check through your scope while you plan the next shot. With Silhouette seeing your shot with Irons is most difficult. What we experienced was a whole lot of heads bobbing up to try and see their hits/misses. We called it 'Gophering'. Of course that flies in the face of everything we are taught about 'staying on the gun'. Those who tried it found their regular scores going down as a result of the bad practices learned so we stopped.

Paul
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desert deuce
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Re: No spotter match

Post by desert deuce »

Some of Aviator's sterling qualities are, he is obviously a man of great moral character as well as possessing an unusually high level of scientific curiosity and intelligence and above all a great asset to our sport. With that said I also issue a note of caution for his consideration in that some of the practitioners he may encounter along his journey are not exactly incorruptible.
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SSShooter
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Re: No spotter match

Post by SSShooter »

When I want to shoot without a spotter I will shoot F-Class (which has pretty much become an equipment race with $1200 front rests, $3000 scopes and barrels every 800-1000rds). Same with all the "silly" side matches. I'm good with the rules as they stand for BPCR.
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Glen Ring
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Re: No spotter match

Post by Glen Ring »

We inquired about F-class. Paper matches with long time limits just doesn't seem like fun for us. I shot IHMSA for about one summer. I was prone, had finished 5 targets and while the target setters were down range I feel asleep! Now with white hair I'm afraid the response might be a well meaning match director grabbing a defibrillator !! I've watched many time national champion John Mullins shoot rifle and his spotter usually is silent..only showing the hits. I have watched National champion Dustin flint and his spotter work..they are VERY vocal . Jeanne and I have always been a team in life and we cut up a LOT when spotting for each other. We like the team concept also.
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.
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