Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Discussions of powders, bullets and loading information.

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TexasMac
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Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by TexasMac » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:17 pm

Just thought I’d post a photo of the two bullets I’m currently using to work up loads for a Browning .45-70 which I have not shot very much since my main chamberings have been .40-65. I'm starting with a "ladder test" at 200yds to determine the powder charge sweet spot for each. Since I wipe between shots I hope the one on the right works out to be the better of the two although it may not hold sufficient lube when the weather gets hot and dry in central Texas. We’ll see.

Wayne

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GrumpyBear
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Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by GrumpyBear » Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:22 pm

Have a friend who shoots 60 grains of 2F Swiss and the Baco version of the Lyman Postel in his, works pretty well for him. He won the 1000,1100,1200 yard shoot at Camp Atterbury in October. Rem Pistol primers with paper under the wad, and I believe.060 poly wad.

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Distant Thunder
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Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by Distant Thunder » Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:43 pm

I have a feeling the Paul Jones Creedmoor would be the better design of the two bullets though I don't know the length of either and in your 18-twist barrel you'd be best off with 1.450" or a bit less.
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Don McDowell
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Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by Don McDowell » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:08 pm

Put that creedmoor on top of 69 gr OE 1 1/2 with a .030 fiber wad, stuffed into winchester cases primed with br2.
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Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by TexasMac » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:48 pm

The combination of the better (slightly more streamline) nose profile and the very shallow lube groves should add a bit to an overall increase in ballistic coefficient. Plus the overall dimensions (not obvious in the photos) allows seating the bullet out further for more powder capacity. It’s arguably my opinion that bullets longer than 1.4” need a faster twist in .45 cal rifles than the standard 18:1 in the Browning’s. Both of the bullets measure approximately 1.450”. More powder capacity will increase the velocity which will help mitigate the slower twist rate. In the Browning (no freebore) using the same powder compression the 45022-2 will hold about 10grs more powder than the Creedmoor. FWIW, if I were having a .45 cal rifle built now I’d go with a 16:1 twist bore.

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Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by TexasMac » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:54 pm

Don McDowell wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:08 pm
Put that creedmoor on top of 69 gr OE 1 1/2 with a .030 fiber wad, stuffed into winchester cases primed with br2.
Don,

I don't have any of the above. I'm using Swiss 1 1/2 with .060" fiber, Rem. cases and Fed Match large pistol primers. Using 0.2" of compression I can stuff 77grs into the case with the 45022-2 but the creedmoor is limited to 67grs.

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Don McDowell
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Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by Don McDowell » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:17 pm

Well good luck.
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Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by ChrisF » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:18 am

Wayne I shoot a 45-70 Browning. Load 68 grain of 1 1/2 Swiss under .060 VF wad I also put a newspaper wad over the flash hole before I load the powder. Compress until Cartridge will chamber. I use CCI BR 2 primes.

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Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by hepburnman » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:47 pm

My original load for my Jim Hamilton Hepburn uses about the same PJ Creedmoor bullet that was shown previously. This shoots very well with 70 gr of 1.5 Fg Swiss and a Fed 215 Mag primer. No freebore and the compression is about 0.3". This bullet will also shoot well with 63 gr of the same powder.

I'm currently having a bullet mold made of a DT-like Money bullet of my own design. Hopefully this will turn out around 530 gr and provide a little less recoil than the ~559 gr PJ bullet. I may also use just the 63 gr charge to help with the recoil. I had also had PJ make me a mold of a bullet to use on chickens that would be as light as possible. It has a hemispherical nose and weighs about 430 gr. Both mold are maybe >20 years old.

I've been shooting a 40-65 for quite a number of years now, to lessen felt recoil, but am trying the 45 cal again because the Hepburn is such a beauty. I will be using CCI BR2 primers here as well as this should also help reduce recoil.

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Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by Kurt » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:59 pm

I think using that 45022-2 you would be mining lead because of that long bare bore riding portion ahead of the first driving band.

Any signs of this?
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Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by TexasMac » Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:14 pm

Kurt wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:59 pm
I think using that 45022-2 you would be mining lead because of that long bare bore riding portion ahead of the first driving band.
Any signs of this?
Yup, that's my main concern with the bullet. I'll be keeping a close eye for any signs of leading. In addition to the long bore riding nose the grooves don't carry much lube. I've only put 120 rounds through the Browning with it so far with no leading issues but have yet to use it for a match. I have made a point of pre-lubing the bore prior to the 1st shot and then wiping between subsequent shots. Shooting it in a match at 95 to 100 degrees in low humidity will be the ultimate test.

And increasing the velocity to help compensate for the 18-twist bore will only increase the possibility of leading. Fun and games. :)

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Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by Kurt » Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:59 pm

Wiping between shots is removing the lube left behind. I have a mould from Paul in a .44 caliber that is very close to that bullet and I mined lead using it. I cured some the problem with a thing coating of lube applied with my fingers that helped with the lead problems but in dusty conditions that is not the thing to do.
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Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by bruce m » Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:37 pm

Kurt wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:59 pm
I think using that 45022-2 you would be mining lead because of that long bare bore riding portion ahead of the first driving band.

Any signs of this?
to me both of those bullets have that problem.
people used to think that bore riding nose stayed bore riding going down the barrel.
they do not, but bump up into the rifling.
as more people are starting to paper patch, they look at bullets like this, and know that if they were patched to bore diameter, the front ot the patch would be somewhere near where the ogive starts.
sometimes when wiping with these bullets, you see a silvery tinge on the first patch.
this means that you have been lucky and the lead did not stick to the barrel.
my pp bullets at 12:1 will still bump up close to where the ogive starts, so you need a harder bullet than that to retain bore riding nose status.
i am using swiss, which might offer more bumpup than less energetic powder.
possibly lyman no2 will be hard enough, who knows.
if your bore is lubricated for the first shot, and you blowtube, keeping the bore lubricated, these bullets would be a lot safer.
i have a custom designed extreme case of bore riding mould, and because it has micro mini grooves blowtubing is ineffectual, so the mould is wasted.
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Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by VectorMan » Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:54 pm

9C880EB4-CE6C-497F-962A-DFA352162373.jpeg
525gr BACO elliptical 20-1 lead, 77grs Swiss 1.5, Starline annealed brass, CCIBR2 primer, .06 LDPE wad, no compression.

Very accurate @ OKCGC 2019 regional. 1st time at that range and 1st regional anywhere. Fun match.
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Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by Kurt » Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:13 pm

Bruce,

Even the Money bullets using 1/20 alloy will end up looking like a bore rider. and end up quiet bit shorter. But as long as the setback is straight they will fly straight, but you will spend time getting the lead cleaned out at the end of the day.
IMG_0518.jpeg
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