Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Discussions of powders, bullets and loading information.

Moderators: Kirk, Lucinda

MrE
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 2:29 pm
Location: Auburn,Wa.

Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by MrE » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:14 pm

Gosh, I wonder how many matchs were won with the pj 45001 with 66 to 70 grains of swiss 1.5 back in the day ?

TexasMac
Posts: 2174
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:29 pm
Location: Central Texas
Contact:

Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by TexasMac » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:47 pm

MrE wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:14 pm
Gosh, I wonder how many matchs were won with the pj 45001 with 66 to 70 grains of swiss 1.5 back in the day ?
MrE,

Do I detect a bit of sarcasm in you comment? :roll: :lol:

I have no doubt that matches have been won with it but that doesn't mean it's the ideal bullet for a 18-twist bore. As noted I plan to load up a bunch with #18 shot load from the ladder test which is 65.5grs of Swiss 1.5Fg. We'll see what kind of accuracy results. I will also load up some with the other bullet (45022-2) using 75.5grs which should make it down range lickety-split. I'm also considering ordering a BACO mould in the 510gr range with a bullet length of 1.32" to 1.37" which I believe is a better fit for a 18-twist bore and still provides plenty of weight to handle the rams.

Wayne
NRA Life (Benefactor & President's Council) Member, TSRA Life Member, NSSF Member, Author & Publisher of the Browning BPCR book
http://www.texas-mac.com

MrE
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 2:29 pm
Location: Auburn,Wa.

Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by MrE » Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:25 pm

Wayne,
Just trying to point out that you stopped your ladder test where that bullet starts to shine at distance. There are lots of loads that work in the 63- 64 grain range for 2- 300 yards but fall of in accuracy at 5-600 yards.
I've also shot the pj eliptical mini groove bullet thats similar to yours with 74 or 76 grains of swiss 1.5 and did ok at 600 but you need to wipe. I quit woriing about compressing swiss a long time ago. My latest lot of swiss is super light for volume so I load for weight not some compression height. Latest 40-65 load runs about .400 with 56 grains.

TexasMac
Posts: 2174
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:29 pm
Location: Central Texas
Contact:

Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by TexasMac » Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:47 pm

MrE wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:25 pm
Wayne,
Just trying to point out that you stopped your ladder test where that bullet starts to shine at distance. There are lots of loads that work in the 63- 64 grain range for 2- 300 yards but fall of in accuracy at 5-600 yards.
I've also shot the pj eliptical mini groove bullet thats similar to yours with 74 or 76 grains of swiss 1.5 and did ok at 600 but you need to wipe. I quit woriing about compressing swiss a long time ago. My latest lot of swiss is super light for volume so I load for weight not some compression height. Latest 40-65 load runs about .400 with 56 grains.
Point taken. When I looked at the results I regretted stopping at 66grs & plan work up some to extend the 45001 ladder test to loads with powder weights in the low 70's and the 45022-2 into the low 80's. I have 12ea from the same batch of bullets for each left over from the ladder text loads.

Wayne
NRA Life (Benefactor & President's Council) Member, TSRA Life Member, NSSF Member, Author & Publisher of the Browning BPCR book
http://www.texas-mac.com

bruce m
Posts: 3351
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:25 am
Location: australia

Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by bruce m » Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:13 pm

while i still maintain there is no such thing as a bore riding nose, i must note that many people get away with bullets described as such.
most of those noses bump into the rifling, exposing ally to the barrel interior in places where we would have patch material on a pp bullet.
of course blowtubing gives a perfect lube in the bore, as the powder foiling + lube combines with water to make soap.
this is good for all but the first shot.
however a question that comes to mind is, can the bullet lube be blown forward into that area when you light the fire, and continue as the alloy in the grooves bumps up, pressurizing the lube.?
we might never have an answer to this.
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus

User avatar
c-ross
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:13 am
Location: MN/MT

Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by c-ross » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:17 pm

Don McDowell wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:08 pm
Put that creedmoor on top of 69 gr OE 1 1/2 with a .030 fiber wad, stuffed into winchester cases primed with br2.
What is the OAL and seating depth you are using with this load. I am struggling to find the sweet spot with the same bullet and powder you are using.
Thanks
Crl

User avatar
Don McDowell
Posts: 7152
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:04 pm
Location: Ft. Laramie Wy
Contact:

Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by Don McDowell » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:37 pm

Don’t h e the measurements handy but the bullet is seated to just short of the driving band
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?

bruce m
Posts: 3351
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:25 am
Location: australia

Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by bruce m » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:54 pm

crl,
you ask the wrong questions.
seating depth and coal come about due to the requirement for a relationship of the bullet to the rifling.
this requirement is often, but not necessarily, that a good place to put the bullet is against the rifling for a groove diameter bullet.
while this is not set in stone, it is a good place to start looking for accuracy.
where the base of that bullet is in the case is how full you fill the case with black powder for a starting load, and then start adding powder and compressing and shooting groups till they get better, then get worse again.
just doing what someone else does is a very hit and miss method, and will often waste time that you could have spent productively testing your rifle and loads.
it also wastes components.
when you have done the above, you can try different primers, wads under the primers, different seating depths, alloys, wads, etc until fine tuning is fully done.
some guys will want a grease groove over the chamber transition in the hope of reducing the possibility of lead rings.
doing all this testing over a chronograph will give you some feedback on standard deviation and average velocity which might help with controlling vert, as well as allowing you to calculate comeups on something like jbm ballistics.
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus

User avatar
Don McDowell
Posts: 7152
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:04 pm
Location: Ft. Laramie Wy
Contact:

Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by Don McDowell » Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:51 pm

c-ross wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:17 pm
Don McDowell wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:08 pm
Put that creedmoor on top of 69 gr OE 1 1/2 with a .030 fiber wad, stuffed into winchester cases primed with br2.
What is the OAL and seating depth you are using with this load. I am struggling to find the sweet spot with the same bullet and powder you are using.
Thanks
Crl
Crl I went out the the msncave and found about 5 rounds still loaded
They measure 2.975 oak
Interesting thing is that same load and oal shoots very well in the Winchester and Browing BPCR’s and the Shiloh #1

Not the prettiest picture but...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?

bruce m
Posts: 3351
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:25 am
Location: australia

Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by bruce m » Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:58 pm

don,
that bullet does not look like a creedmoor as i know it.
which presents the question, is it the same creedmoor as crl is using?
this is where this type of advice, while possibly helpful, can also bring a less than optimum outcome for the other guy.
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus

User avatar
Don McDowell
Posts: 7152
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:04 pm
Location: Ft. Laramie Wy
Contact:

Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by Don McDowell » Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:04 pm

Bruce lucky guess, no that's not a Creedmoor, it's the 535 money bullet, but I load the so called "creedmoor" bullets the same way. I like them to just drop into a clean chamber, any further out and the rifling starts to engage,the nose base of the nose. Contrary to often repeated internet wisdom engaging the rifling isn't always, the trick to good accuracy.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?

bruce m
Posts: 3351
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:25 am
Location: australia

Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by bruce m » Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:12 pm

that is true don, sometimes being able to chamber a round is handy.
it would worry me if the base of the nose was engaging the rifling.
i would look for a better fitting bullet.
or does the ogive go to full groove diameter?
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus

User avatar
c-ross
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:13 am
Location: MN/MT

Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by c-ross » Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:43 am

Thank you for the comments and discussion. I have always used the Lyman Postel and had acceptable accuracy. I am not that accomplished at knowing how to create and develop an accurate load. I am trying a new bullet I guess to drive myself nuts. :( I will try various seating depths, powder charges etc until I find a combination that will work. The load I have been using was given to me by an old friend that no longer walks with us and by luck it worked for my gun.

Crl

User avatar
Don McDowell
Posts: 7152
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:04 pm
Location: Ft. Laramie Wy
Contact:

Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by Don McDowell » Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:05 am

It’s always good to start with the powder compress Enoch to let the bullet seat to the driving band
Then let the target tell you if you need to change things
Also keep in mind that a good and consistent fouling control is vital to accuracy
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?

User avatar
Don McDowell
Posts: 7152
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:04 pm
Location: Ft. Laramie Wy
Contact:

Re: Working on loads for a Browning .45-70

Post by Don McDowell » Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:05 am

It’s always good to start with the powder compress Enoch to let the bullet seat to the driving band
Then let the target tell you if you need to change things
Also keep in mind that a good and consistent fouling control is vital to accuracy
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?

Post Reply