Swiss powder compression question

Discussions of powders, bullets and loading information.

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ian45662
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Re: Swiss powder compression question

Post by ian45662 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:11 am

Hey John what Bullet did you shoot in your trapdoor? :D

John Bly
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Re: Swiss powder compression question

Post by John Bly » Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:45 am

A Baco 535 grain custom cut to .462" diameter. I bought it from you, I'm sure you remember. Ha!
"Perfection consists not so much in doing extraordinary things as in doing ordinary things extraordinarily well"

ian45662
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Re: Swiss powder compression question

Post by ian45662 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:57 am

Yea I remember :lol: Guess I should have tried it in my TD before I sold it

ian45662
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Re: Swiss powder compression question

Post by ian45662 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:59 am

I thought I was posting this over on the trapdoor thread. I have no clue how it got over to this one.

John Bly
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Re: Swiss powder compression question

Post by John Bly » Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:35 pm

Brain fart!
"Perfection consists not so much in doing extraordinary things as in doing ordinary things extraordinarily well"

opencountry
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Re: Swiss powder compression question

Post by opencountry » Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:06 pm

Ok, so looking back at the replies here I see shooters going/settling with various compression values shooting Swiss powder:
Woody-.050”
Ian-.160”
Semtav-.200”
etc...
I sat today and loaded (test loads) five shells with 106,107,108,109 and 110 grains of Swiss 1Fg for my .45-110. Compression values varied, or course, with the gain in powder weights. The compression die remained at the same setting.
106 - .052”
107 - .059”
108 - .082”
109 - .105”
110 - .123”
I’m using a .030” vegi-fiber over-powder wad to compress with, then adding a .060” poly wad, and an 1/8” felt wad I get from Harlan Sage, leaving me a good 1/8” to seat my patched 16-1 535-grain .443” swaged money bullet. I use 100% cotton 9# paper. BTW, I settled the loose powder that I drop-tuned in the cases by placing the shell-loading block on a vibrating platform. The vibration wasn’t enough to make the powder granules jump up and down, but just enough to make the powder in the cases kinda rotate in a circle inside the cases.
I’ll give these loads an honest try soon; looking for a calm warm evening. When I see something promising I’ll work the powder charge up and down a half grain. Thanks, everyone, for your input. It’s truly appreciated.

Robert
"The rabbi that praises himself has a congregation of one."
...from 'Fiddler on the Roof'

Kenny Wasserburger
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Re: Swiss powder compression question

Post by Kenny Wasserburger » Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:11 pm

Robert that wad stack, sounds very familiar. :lol:


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opencountry
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Re: Swiss powder compression question

Post by opencountry » Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:15 pm

Kenny Wasserburger wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:11 pm
Robert that wad stack, sounds very familiar. :lol:


Kenny Wasserburger
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R
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...from 'Fiddler on the Roof'

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bpcr shooter
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Re: Swiss powder compression question

Post by bpcr shooter » Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:52 pm

dont use GG bullets but, I use one .060 poly wad and compress .070 and seat the bullet .080.


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desert deuce
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Re: Swiss powder compression question

Post by desert deuce » Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:07 am

Ian wrote:
My opinion. Try everything. Start with 0 and work your way up. It may be good that we can give you an IDEA but I think it’s a good thing to try everything. Leave no stone unturned.
Probably the best way to approach each lot of powder with each individual rifle.

In the days of old when Goex CTG was gold the 45-90 for long range and the lot I had required .400" of compression.
The 40-65 and 45-70 about .250" and all preferred a large rifle magnum primer, usually a Federal 215

Today the Swiss 1 1/2 I have seems to like around .105" in the 40-65 and I am not settled on the best compression in the 45-70,YET!

Suffice it to say a chronograph will help in determining a good load and the target will have the last word.

With that said, I do not expect a load that shoots well at 200 yards to shoot well at 1,000. I need the target's approval of any long range load.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!

opencountry
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Re: Swiss powder compression question

Post by opencountry » Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:09 pm

Yup, just as in benchrest shooting, with every new lot of powder a new load must be found for precious shooting. It’s what keeps us on our toes; it’s the challenge.
Robert
"The rabbi that praises himself has a congregation of one."
...from 'Fiddler on the Roof'

opencountry
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Re: Swiss powder compression question

Post by opencountry » Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:14 pm

opencountry wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:09 pm
Yup, just as in benchrest shooting, with every new lot of powder a new load must be found for precious shooting. It’s what keeps us on our toes; it’s the challenge.
Robert
(Cont.)...
And, that’s just the beginning in full-blown completion. Cases of the same lot, primer pocket depth cut to uniform depth, flash holes de-burred, cases weighed, concentricity issues, bullet weights, etc., etc., etc. It’s never-ending. It takes a LOT of preparation, as most (maybe all) of you know. But then, after this work is complete we reap from our labors. I think people who do what we do, striving for perfection, are an interesting and special group/class of individuals.
"The rabbi that praises himself has a congregation of one."
...from 'Fiddler on the Roof'

Maj. Forrest Smith
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Re: Swiss powder compression question

Post by Maj. Forrest Smith » Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:04 pm

Opencountry, I think your original thoughts are in the right neighborhood. I consider what compression it takes is the "by product" or "secondary objective" compared to determining the correct over-all-length of the bullet in the case. The bullet is always going to the same height in the case each time, once you have determined the correct OAL. As you mention the compression changes as we try different powder charges in the case. We usually start with a powder charge just enough to settle the powder down under the wad with a dowel rod to compressing a lot with the larger powder charges as in your example of 70 to 80 grs. In my books it is more important to find the correct AOL with the bullet you are using and then see what powder charge groups better on the target down range. Then if I want, I can go back and check what the compression measures, but I don't really care what that number is. As long as I compress the powder to get the bullet to give me the right OAL each time. The proof is "in the pudding" or better in this case "on the target". As others have said, depending on the density of the powder, it may take more or less compression of the same powder charge weigh for the next lot of the supposedly of the same powder.

Once you have found what powder weight that works the best in your Ladder testing at the range, other things can be tried to improve on the accuracy, like different primers, different thickness and material the wads, over the flash hole newspaper wad, a newspaper wad between the bullet and different lead to tin mixes. Only try one change at a time, so that you know what makes it better or worst when you test it down range. This is just part of the "JOY" of shooting BP cartridges!

bruce m
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Re: Swiss powder compression question

Post by bruce m » Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:57 pm

good post maj.
we tend to let compression dominate our minds, when it is a by product of oal and charge weight.
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus

opencountry
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Re: Swiss powder compression question

Post by opencountry » Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:57 pm

Thank you Major Smith,
I’ve read your entry over and over, and found it very revealing, educational in fact. Thank you, sir.
I’ve ordered a new case of Swiss 1Fg to start my new testings. I’m determined to find the ultimate potential of these three Shiloh rifles I own (one 45-90, and two 45-110s), for it’s something that I really enjoy doing.
Robert
"The rabbi that praises himself has a congregation of one."
...from 'Fiddler on the Roof'

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