Forming a Black Powder Shooting Organization

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Re: Forming a Black Powder Shooting Organization

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Re: Forming a Black Powder Shooting Organization

Post by VectorMan »

I think there is a demand for a organization to be formed to help further along the BPCR silhouette game. It needs to be organized and ran by competitors for the competitors. As to whether there are that many competitors willing to go the extra mile to make this happen remains to be seen.

After just getting back from the 22 BPCRA nationals and the International showdown at Raton, I will say those were the best ran matches I’ve ever seen in my life. Were they with out fault, no. No match will ever be that. The most impressive was the target setters and how smoothly everything went from start to finish. I remember in between 1 relay they had set targets right around 2 minutes. That was impressive. As an average, I’m guessing it was probably around 3 minutes overall. Also impressive. Those kids never gave up. While looking through my spotting scope and watching them reset the animals at the big bore match, I witnessed 1 kid drop a Ram right square on the top of his foot. It was painful to watch. He stood there for awhile not moving. Whatever they got paid, they earned it.
Below are only my opinions and in no means are meant to discredit or bash anyone on the way their matches are ran. Anyone who steps up to put on a match gets my utmost respect. Matches are hard and trying to serve everyone to their 100% satisfaction is impossible.

Several things that I would like to see a new organization do is keep most of the same rules that we now use in place but with a few adjustments. I’m a traditionalist so I would like to see more strict guidelines as to some of the equipment. 1 thing in particular I saw was a competitor that had a bubble level that you buy at a hardware store somehow mounted on the top of their receiver with either tape, epoxy or glue. I mean come on. Not only did it look stupid but I do not see why they couldn’t have had it mounted in their front sight like everyone else who had one. That’s a petty complaint, I know, but when you start letting the nose of the camel in the tent you know what happens.
Another rule that needs to be more defined is “the grounding of the rifle” during a match. There were several competitors complaining about someone who was doing it, but they said that it did no good to bring it up because it would go nowhere because of how the rule reads, the person who is braking it and the person running the match. I dunno. More insight into this by seasoned competitors and actual match directors would need to be addressed.
Another area would be to try to police the line somehow better, if it can be done. I saw a group of guys shoot the wrong target but still marked it for score. I doubt there is ever a way to stop this and I’m sure it goes on at every larger match.
Lastly would be the prizes awarded at the larger matches. The way, and the prizes themselves that they used for door prizes out at Raton was great. Well done. I don’t have a big problem with the match trophies they gave out but I personally would like a plaque instead of a coin or a belt buckle, but that’s just me. All are neat in their own way but I think for some, they are a turn off. I personally have no desire to have a big ornate belt buckle. That’s just me. Now maybe if I was from Texas or owned a big cattle ranch with my prized registered quarter horse that stands 16 hands tall in the barn, then I might desire one. But if the consensus is 90% want a big buckle, then that’s what the majority wants, so be it. It would be cool to have all and I mean all the competitors weigh in on this at a competitor meeting. I do not like mandates but somehow it would be nice to make it mandatory for the competitors to put their opinions down on paper. I realize the trophies depend a lot on how many competitors there are and how much money is in the pot so to speak. But with a little hard work, input and research, I’m sure an organization can figure it out. Maybe elect 2 individuals whose primary function within the new organization is to find out what the competitors want as trophies and do some in depth research to find the best bargain. A few sub committees might need to be formed in order not to put everything directly square on the board members shoulders. Maybe after coming up with want they want, say plaques for instance, then the 2 individuals or sub committee get 3 designs and the competitors vote on them. There are some pretty skilled and imaginative people in this sport and I’m sure a kick ass trophy design could be found that everyone is proud to have in their possession. We need to go above the normal mundane everyday practice of just a generic trophy. Bottom line is the competitors are involved in the decision making process. Which would help promote the sport, I think.
Also mandatory would be a complete equipment list. Not so much so we see what our competitors are using but to make a data base to see what is being used a lot and try to go to those suppliers, make a plea to them about their products and see how they feel about using them for prizes and so forth. Input, input, input.
I’m sure this has already made some mad, frustrated and turned off. Just trying to spit ball some ideas to keep it moving along. It really needs to happen. I believe the NRA has their hands full now with lawyers and such and to them we probably look like a group of grumbly old men whose sport is not popular amongst the populous and I would like for them to keep focused on the 2nd amendment rights and let us competitors run the BPCR silhouette matches. It’s probably a pipe dream.

Another area of contentious discussion would be for the match layout for the scope and iron sight competitors to be competing head to head or have the iron sight shooters have their own match. They can shoot side by side with the scope shooters but have their own awards, and I understand that then that means more trophies to purchase. When I started out I was just using irons and hated the scope guys, until I had eye problems and got a scope. Since then I got my eye problem corrected but haven’t went back to irons. I just like the sight picture a scope gives me. I truly feel sorry for the iron sight shooters on hazy days, rainy days, or days when the smoke just hangs and they have to shoot through it. On those days the scope guys have a slight advantage. The scores do not reflect much of an overall advantage but that’s a discussion to have when setting things up. In 2022 I am trying to make the switch back to irons, what can I say, I’m a traditionalist at heart. Before long, all we will have is scope shooters because most of the iron shooters feel poorly about shooting head to head even though they are still competitive. I think we should do our best to promote the iron sight guys to feel important and needed which they are to this sport.

The 22 BPCRA organization and the newly formed BPTRA seem to be doing well without the help from the NRA with matches. I’m curious if the NRA has donated or been asked to supply something for their matches?

One thing I do know, nothing will get better unless something is done, and that starts with mature discussions and open minds.

Like I stated above, those Raton matches were 1st class all the way and even though its a hassle for me to attend them, they are the matches now at the top of my list. I will have a thread about my Raton experience a little later. Still getting caught up with work.

KA
"keep adding powder til it bloodies your nose and blacks your eyes, then back it off bout 5 grains."
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Re: Forming a Black Powder Shooting Organization

Post by Glen Ring »

Kevin Wrote "Several things that I would like to see a new organization do is keep most of the same rules that we now use in place but with a few adjustments." ... I agree with this concerning Silhouette. There is that copy write thing and I'm sure the NRA would never press the copy write infringement thing, if someone had really PO'd the head of the competitions division there might be an issue..I doubt it, but it's best to cover all the bases BEFORE there is a problem.

Kevin wrote"1 thing in particular I saw was a competitor that had a bubble level that you buy at a hardware store somehow mounted on the top of their receiver with either tape, epoxy or glue. I mean come on. Not only did it look stupid but I do not see why they couldn’t have had it mounted in their front sight like everyone else"...... I like keeping the equipment race down in BPCR. I have shot the other silhouette sports and the equipment race has polluted those sports.BPCR is still pure. BTW Paul Mathews advocated using a level on his barrel .

Kevin Wrote" I personally have no desire to have a big ornate belt buckle. That’s just me. Now maybe if I was from Texas or owned a big cattle ranch with my prized registered quarter horse that stands 16 hands tall in the barn, then I might desire one" I don't wear belt buckles either BUT, It was a trophy that can be displayed in your home just about anywhere...and it's much cooler than most wooden plaques..except ours, we have damn cool wooden plaques LOL!!

Kevin Wrote "I’m sure this has already made some mad, frustrated and turned off. Just trying to spit ball some ideas to keep it moving along. It really needs to happen. I believe the NRA has their hands full now with lawyers and such and to them we probably look like a group of grumbly old men whose sport is not popular amongst the populous and I would like for them to keep focused on the 2nd amendment rights and let us competitors run the BPCR silhouette matches. It’s probably a pipe dream." .......The NRA will be back at the WC...the WC likes silhouette shooters. We'll see what next year brings. Who knows.

Kevin wrote " I think we should do our best to promote the iron sight guys to feel important and needed which they are to this sport" .... There is something very pure about an iron sight BPCR shooter. I agree with you on this also. I wish I had young eyes..maybe after I get them worked on I can shoot iron sights again. Remember...the guys that put on the big bore match shoot iron sights...if they would have felt handicapped there might be a change in the rules, but I think the iron sight shooters did ok this time.

Kevin wrote" One thing I do know, nothing will get better unless something is done, and that starts with mature discussions and open minds." The Texas state rifle association an the NRA are both promoting the shooting sports and HELP each other. There is no logical reasoning that prevents working WITH the NRA to put on matches. The NRA would probably LOVE to give a group a chunk of money to put on a match...they have done that in the past.

Kevin wrote" I think there is a demand for a organization to be formed to help further along the BPCR silhouette game. It needs to be organized and ran by competitors for the competitors. As to whether there are that many competitors willing to go the extra mile to make this happen remains to be seen." ......True...but before we get all finger pointy look in the mirror. Jeanne and I have went that extra mile as match directors..and Kevin buddy, it's a thankless job. NOTHING prevents YOU from helping or running matches. Get ready for folks that have never been a match director to have a "suggestion".

Now Kevin....my spin on matches. When a match bulletin/invite/contract goes out and I sign on the dotted line and pay the fee I have agreed to the terms of that contract. I do what it asks. I do NOT care if the match director takes the money, buys a hooker and an 8 ball of cocaine with it and snorts it off the hookers rear in the range parking lot! None of my business where the money goes, it iS my business if the range is unsafe, or if a competitor or match official is drunk, obnoxious or whatever. I have agreed in that contract to the awards given BUT the door prizes were welcome extras weren't they? I'm in my 66th year and like watching my grandson and wife shoot BPCR. I hope we can all shoot at the WC next year. I hope you'll be there too.
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Re: Forming a Black Powder Shooting Organization

Post by Kenny Wasserburger »

This is nothing new folks.

Funny how time has changed perspectives.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22694



KW
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Re: Forming a Black Powder Shooting Organization

Post by Kenny Wasserburger »

KA,

The individual involved that was accused of grounding her rifle was indeed not…grounding. I have seen this happed to her multiple times. It stems from ignorance and jealousy, too many guys with a gut cannot get that low and never will in the prone position. Their problem and not hers. You can definitely slide a hand under her position and her gun isn’t being grounded, her left hand is on her arm and supporting the rifle nothing is touching her mat.

Who ever said she was is a jealous dumbass.

Kenny W.
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Re: Forming a Black Powder Shooting Organization

Post by jackrabbit »

If there is one thing I've found in being an entrepreneur it is that ideas are cheap. Implementation is where the real value is. Who can actually get it done? Everyone has lots of ideas of what and how things should be done, but very few are capable of actually doing it.

Too bad we don't have some capable guy with plenty of time on his hands that would want to set up a BPCR organization. I wouldn't say shit, he can do it however he wants, just as long as I didn't have to be the one to do it.
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Re: Forming a Black Powder Shooting Organization

Post by VectorMan »

Kenny Wasserburger wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 2:37 pm KA,

The individual involved that was accused of grounding her rifle was indeed not…grounding. I have seen this happed to her multiple times. It stems from ignorance and jealousy, too many guys with a gut cannot get that low and never will in the prone position. Their problem and not hers. You can definitely slide a hand under her position and her gun isn’t being grounded, her left hand is on her arm and supporting the rifle nothing is touching her mat.

Who ever said she was is a jealous dumbass.

Kenny W.
Yes, Kenny, when a few guys had a discussion about it, I watched to make my own determination. Then went back to the hotel that night and read the rules. The next day I told them I don’t think she wast actually grounding the rifle according to the current rules the way I saw it and actually read the rules to them, but like I said, more people wold have to look into it. I for one would love to get that low on a rifle.

Cody is correct, it takes someone with a determination and passion to set up such an organization. Time and money are both a key factor. I am so happy to see the 22 BPCRA doing well and now the BPTRA. Having paid attention to what has happened to the BPTR NRA matches in the past was very discerning. Hopefully a spot will open up will work so i can go out west and contribute to their cause.

KA.
"keep adding powder til it bloodies your nose and blacks your eyes, then back it off bout 5 grains."
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Re: Forming a Black Powder Shooting Organization

Post by Glen Ring »

jackrabbit wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:29 pm Too bad we don't have some capable guy with plenty of time on his hands that would want to set up a BPCR organization. I wouldn't say shit, he can do it however he wants, just as long as I didn't have to be the one to do it.
100% true.

Like my Texas shooting bud Emmet Dibble says " Everyone likes eatin but it seems not too many like to cook". ( Emmet is a long time shooter and match director)
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.
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Re: Forming a Black Powder Shooting Organization

Post by Kenny Wasserburger »

Back when we almost had a chance with the NRA.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18902&start=90

All,

There's more good points being made here since I last checked. Plus, I've also achieved my daily entertainment requirement.

I like the point Dale made about new shooters that benefit from you veterans, in particular, load development, techniques, etc. It gives them the benefit of starting with really decent scores, unlike the guys that had to do all the R&D to figure this game out. This should be a major selling point in getting new shooters. Most of the work has been done by you guys. Loads and technique have been pioneered by you guys. It's a lot like HDTV's-Sony and the other major players had to pay for the R&D of HDTV, then they forked out all the bread needed for production. Now, companies like Visio can sell you the same TV, with the same components, for much cheaper since they didn't pay for the R&D and don't need to make that money back. I’m thankful we've reached this level since it makes black powder shooting an easier sell to new, inexperienced shooters.
It never failed at Raton for the NRA to have him and I classed in Sharpshooter. We told them every year we were expert class shooters, but it fell on deaf ears.
Now jump to 2011, Lee placed very high in SS, and the NRA called his name, but withheld his awards. Shortly after getting home, he received his new classification card. Since the "horses mouth" is watching this thread, he can explain this action.
I'm not sure exactly what happened here as I don't understand how your question reads. We withheld your award and we called your name? I try my hardest to leave everything in Raton since it's less I have to ship back to DC. Lee Burrow's Day 2 300 YDS High SS in POS? We don't have an award here with that designation which means that someone else picked it up, you guys didn't hang around afterwards to see what happened or we never had it in the first place. It could be all a combination of the aforementioned reasons. I doubt we didn't have it, since we always have excess awards, especially in SS and MK class if you've been reading this thread. Bottom line, we recognized Lee in front of his peers. If for some reason, he didn't get a medal, LET ME KNOW! Don't sit there and harbor grudges when you can let me know there is a problem. I will send him another one. It isn't hard, it'll be mailed right to his house.
Having watched this happen over a period of years, I cannot blame people for just shooting the class on their card. For so many years, the governing body did not give a shit about keeping classifications updated, now they do. Yahoo.......
All this “ya’ll have fun” bullshit is California gay. That’s the worst attitude we can have in regards to the longevity of our sport. I’ll show them, I’ll quit is not the way to make anything better. Don’t pussy-foot around the Internet when we can be mature and fix issues, as they arise, like adults. I give a “shit”. Furthermore, “Yahoo” is an expression I’d use since we’re entering a new era in NRA Black Powder Target Rifle competition and new classifications are a start in the right direction if you guys want to see this discipline last. I’d like to keep you guys on my firing line so communication is something we should work on achieving rather than letting me know something was wrong, a year later, in this thread.

I also agree with Kenny’s High Master proposal-more consistency and standardization is good for our sport. It encourages cross-over shooters and provides similarities and consistencies found in other disciplines-just like what we did with the scoring and marking system this year. With this being said, it’s also important to preserve our own, unique identity. Getting new shooters involved is important and making things easier for them is a positive factor in attaining our goals. Also, fixing this classification issue will breathe new life into our sport from the perspective of making the playing field even which should also provide additional incentive for new shooters trying something different like NRA Black Powder Target Rifle.

And, finally, Ray, I’m not trying to be mean to you or I would’ve dragged your poodle into this conversation. I can tell I struck a nerve, as blatantly displayed in the fervent disregard and reckless abandonment you’ve shown in your grasp of the English language and associated punctuation, as you were obviously hacking away at your keyboard trying to get that last paragraph downrange in a hurry. Take a deep breath, dude. I’ll brush up on my spaghetti westerns and you get some blood-pressure medicine in you ASAP. Just know that I’m a team player so I don’t care if that was directed at me or not. The NRA isn’t the French Navy, so if you take a shot over our bow, I’m going to return fire in defense, every, single time. So we’re clear, I like you as a person and I like having you on my firing line every year. You bring a high degree of competition that is needed at Nationals. To this day, one of my most treasured compliments is as follows, “Jonathan, I’m not going to tell you that you did a good job but I will thank you for giving me my money’s worth.” That was you. If you have a problem, let’s be mature and fix it like men. Enough is enough, call me if you want to bitch or advise-(703) 472-7967. We can talk about last night’s American Idol for all I care, however, from here on out, we’re going to be constructive in these threads instead of demeaning. Nobody wants to read our BS anymore.
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Re: BPTR Classifications
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Post by LEIGHTON » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:30 pm

Another thing I forgot to mention-The Lunger is right again when he says that this match and the NRA share the same history. I mean, last year, the Castle Trophy that Doc Lay and Dan Theodore held in victory is the same Castle Trophy held by COL John Bodine in his 1873 Creedmoor victory. This is the NRA's match and we can work together to restore it's prestige.

You guys can really benefit from listening to guys like Kenny. His invaluable experience doesn't just stem from Silhouette and gong matches either. Kenny has competed extensively in across-the-course at the National-level. Across-the-course has a lot more similarities in this game over Silhouette so keep that in mind as that's the direction we need to be heading instead of catering to Silhouette. We are on our own now. With committee changes in the future, this discipline will be governed by the shooters, for the shooters. We can take it wherever you guys want to go...
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Re: Forming a Black Powder Shooting Organization

Post by Kenny Wasserburger »

This young man was paying attention. When the NRA’s gas came to an end he stepped up to the plate,
Working full time, yet made the time to create the BPTRA.

by COBPTR » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:43 pm

As one of the younger people in this sport I was drawn in by shooting my first match with Dad at The Quigley in Forsyth, MT. I thought it was a little hokey at first to see half the participants dressed up and struttin around. Everything was made clear as to why I was there after I fired his 50/90 for the first time on practice day and heard the gong go off next to me through a distorted 2way radio.
As a younger competitor I started attending silhouette matches and even a World Creedmoor in Lodi, in ’08. I couldn’t have had more fun. People were nice and welcoming and it didn’t hurt that my Dad won the grand prize, a C. Sharps 44/90. Now I’m hooked on longrange!
Since, I’ve attended all the competitions I’m able to.
I was happy as a new shooter I could enter as a Marksmen or Sharpshooter. If it was one class only I probably would have quit early on because of the years of catch up I’d have to do might not be worth it.
The short term goal of getting to Sharpshooter and then Expert made it worth it and gave you a gauge of progress. I believe the class system remains a valuable tool. I wouldn’t be opposed to 3 classes though.
In a perfect world most sports are setup to narrow the field so that at Nationals you have the top shooters only. Until our attendance gets to that point I get to shoot with my Dad at the pinnacle event in our sport. What a prize! I don’t see a need to change that until we have enough shooters. Then we can make another decision.
Johnathan keeps making the point that this is in our hands. We need to elect a small body of participants/experts like the Wasserburgers, Theodores, Monikowskis, Shavers, etc.. that have a history behind them but are forward thinking enough to make it relevant for the shooters of the 21st century. How is Johnathan or anyone at the NRA going to make hard decisions by seeing us bicker in an online forum? We need to have one clear voice that they can at least give us a yay or neigh on.
Just let the pillars of our sport decide on scorebooks, classes, etc.. and everyone will go along. I agree that before we start talking about World Competitions we need to get our affairs in order here first.
I think after we fix and establish what we want in our sport with proposed elected leaders we move on to phase 2. How we get new shooters into the sport?
This sport takes time, money, reading, math and a lot of crap in general. The only way to trick younger people into that is by advertising in some sort of way. To me the Creedmoor matches decide who the best rifle shot in the world is, period. No scopes, no smokeless, old guns, etc.. Advertise it that way. Pitch it that way to your friends, neighbors, kids and so on. The NRA started something cool last year with including us in their blog updates. Let’s ask them to do this for Regional Comps. around the country as well. Like it or not we need to head that way.
Another idea would be to have a rewarded Father/Son category. They do it for fishing, why not us? It makes for a better pitch to your kids or mentee if there’s a prize at the end.
The last idea I can think of is having some sort of State Category associated with Nationals. Where a Wyoming, Colorado, Texas, Montana as examples can have a combined shooter score with an even number of participants from each state lead to a trophy. Some good recruiting and motivation to get new shooters involved would come from this. People would feel more motivated to come if their “State Pride” was on the line. If I got to talk smack to Jimbo, Bryan and Kenny for a year that would be worth it alone!

This sport and prize has been around well over a hundred years. Let’s not lose it on our watch.


Robert G.
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Re: Forming a Black Powder Shooting Organization

Post by Glen Ring »

Good points Kevin..Maybe you can start things up.
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Re: Forming a Black Powder Shooting Organization

Post by VectorMan »

Glen Ring wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:05 am Good points Kevin..Maybe you can start things up.
Hey Glenn,
Unfortunately I have more important commitments in life that keep me from starting anything of that magnitude.
Without getting in great detail I feel I have contributed a lot to the BPCR shooting game, someday it will be more.

KA
"keep adding powder til it bloodies your nose and blacks your eyes, then back it off bout 5 grains."
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Re: Forming a Black Powder Shooting Organization

Post by Glen Ring »

When you decide to start give me a shout and I'll help.
Those other Kansas boys can contribute a LOT. Rick is brilliant and a great manager apparently.

I'll try putting the final touches on this air gun thing. Maybe a starting point for shooting silhouette from the positions and loose rules of bpcr and then the next step is 22 BPCR. Who knows, if folks try the air rifle thing and only progress to 22 it's a good thing.
Be safe.
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Re: Forming a Black Powder Shooting Organization

Post by desert deuce »

From KW's post above:

"We are on our own now. With committee changes in the future, this discipline will be governed by the shooters, for the shooters. We can take it wherever you guys want to go..."
Jonathan Leighton

And I believe that was in April 2012 when Jonathan was NRA Coordinator for Black Powder Target Rifle. He knew then we are on our own.

Those that are ignorant of history are bound to repeat it. And it was August 2012 Dennis Willing came to Raton and all that seemed to be on his mind was if National Championships don't maintain 50 or more shooters NRA will cease to sponsor, that he said to a full room of shooters as I recall 62 or so in number present.

Shortly after that Jonathan was gone from NRA and we got Barry Ranney and Greg Connors.

Then fall of 2015 or 16 at the Black Powder Committee Meeting Dennis Willing said he was giving me about six weeks to move Black Powder Target out of the NRA, that he wanted it out of the NRA. Later he said he wasn't sending Staff to Raton twice in one year. Subsequently the move of Silhouette out of Raton, and go ahead and think anyone engaged in competing should think favorably of competitions and NRA in the same brain fart. You are delusional. Whomever is employed by the NRA will do the NRA's bidding. Period. Willing skillfully used divide and conquer, two silhouette Nationals, one East, one West, (suggested my noted competitors) combine winners of those two to decide the National Champions at a third venue, to be announced. To be announced never happened. And, since Ridgeway by comparison to Raton is commuting distance from Virginia for NRA Staff, the Nationals have ended up at Ridgeway. Divide and conquer worked because the shooters did not stick together.

So, if anyone has any memory at all, and discernment, Willing was on the road to ousting BPTR when he took over in 2012, and did cancel one Nationals before reinstating it at the last minute when awards from the previous year were presented. Yeah but, he also had silhouette on his mind for the near future. We can, too late, look askance to those fellow shooters that facilitated these moves without disclosure to our group as any future movement is contemplated.

AND, to point out the 2,000 pound Gorilla in the room, suitable ranges to conduct "quality" matches on is a problem. Pitiful few for target, and a slowly diminishing number for silhouette. The control of and ownership of ranges is also a consideration. For the most part, both Target and Silhouette are somewhat at the mercy of whomever schedules the ranges and if 429 F-Class shooters want Ben Avery in November they will edge out anyone else vying to use that range promising fewer numbers. Essentially that is decided a year in advance.

Geography anyone, no target matches at Ben Avery in May-October, too hot. No silhouette in Missoula Nov-April, too cold. I've heard it all, "Oh, it's too far. There's nothing to do there but shoot, there are no motels "close by" etc, etc, etc..." Then those shooters that want you to accommodate them don't show up for the match when you do and then wonder why Match Directors do listen to those that do show up and shoot.

We are at a critical moment in history. What the reality of the moment is changes from day to day currently. Will something like normalcy return, if so when? Nobody knows.

I see going forward for at least a year anybody that wants target and silhouette to survive better do a bunch of showing up and shooting because those that are fighting what you are unaware of going on behind the scenes need to know you support these matches so they will continue to put on matches through these trying times.

You have been advised.
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Glen Ring
Posts: 904
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:45 pm

Re: Forming a Black Powder Shooting Organization

Post by Glen Ring »

Kevin
I forgot to mention Jay Butts...he's about as enthusiastic as anyone and a damn nice fellow.

I have to back up what jackrabbit said...ideas are a dime a dozen. Implementing that into action is another thing altogether.

How bout let's try this airgun thing as a trial run. BPAR. We have been shooting today and I can tell you shooting an air rifle set up for a scaled down version of BP silhouette is a hoot.

BPAR. I'll keep the stats( Because some of us can shoot a course in the yard) and we'll give that a trial run. Heck, I'll even buy the first Grand Slam award and send it to #1.

We have a FB page. Oklahoma steel Shooters. Shoot it, post the results and I'll keep that data base. NO CHARGE, NO BOOK TO BUY.
A bunch of BP shooters shoot air rifle in the winter. The field target guys LOVE to shoot outdoors so let's draw from that pool and maybe some of the air rifle guys/gals will give BPCR 22 a try .
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.
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