22 long rifle ammunition

Discussions of powders, bullets and loading information.

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SFogler
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Re: 22 long rifle ammunition

Post by SFogler »

My wife has an original Stevens 45 with a legal buttplate for BPCR .22 and I have a Winchester 1885 Miroku. We tested both rifles out to 100 yards and found the Norma Match shot really well through them. We bought a lot of it back when you could. Then we noticed neither rifle did well past 100 yards at a couple of matches. I got several different brands of match ammo and retested both rifles at 200 yards, wiping and cleaning the barrels after each brand was shot. The Norma Match just didn't hold up out to 200 yards. (I shot it first just to make sure lube wasn't a factor.) Ten X was very marginally better than the SK Long Range Rifle. Since the SK was a whole lot cheaper we bought some of that and it shoots very well through both the rifles. After that I really don't see much point in testing at less than 200 yards if you are looking for silhouette ammo. There is a huge difference in ammo and in what ammo does best in your particular rifle especially at longer ranges. Because of the difference in lubes between brands, I would not mix brands at a match without more testing.
John Bly
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Re: 22 long rifle ammunition

Post by John Bly »

For shooting at 200 yards you must shoot what your rifle likes best. Only testing will tell you this. I shot 10 different kinds of 22 ammo at 100 yards then picked the best 4 and shot them at 200 yards. This is where the best one shows up and it is not always one of the highest end varieties. I ended up shooting Norma TAC. It beat out Center X and Tenex. My rifle is a TJ's lined Ballard. I've got a new barrel in the works for my Maynard and a Low wall nearly done with a Green Mountain #3. Also a Stevens 44 action waiting in the wings with a GM #2 barrel but right now the Ballard is it.
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Glen Ring
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Re: 22 long rifle ammunition

Post by Glen Ring »

John
We shot a match today and the Norma Tac did well in our rifles at 200 meters. I Think a lot of us know, 200 meters is where the testing should happen.
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TexasMac
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Re: 22 long rifle ammunition

Post by TexasMac »

I recently took a survey of the .22LR ammo used by our Yaupon Creek Silhouette (YCSA) shooters for .22BPCR matches. Following are my comments from collecting the information & a spread sheet of the data. The shooter number simply indicates a shooter that scored either 30 with a scope of 28 with iron sights in one or more of the eight 40-shot matches held since Jan. this year. Most are master class shooters. I had them listed by name in alphabetical order and removed the names but left them in the same order.

RWS is the most popular brand.

The CMP bulk Eley is popular with several shooters but some are having problems with the latest batches. One shooter said “I used the CMP Eley bulk ammo and shot my best scores with it. But it only shoots well on cooler days. Hot days it does not shoot well. Also the older CMP Ely ammo bullets weight 40 grains & the new stuff weighs 42 gr.” Another shooter exclusively uses CMP bulk Eley & has shot some excellent mid-30’s scores even on hot days. He has a very tight custom chamber is his rifle.

Some believe that CMP bulk Eley is what falls out when sorting Eley Tenex or Eley Match which is definitely not correct. Eley Tenex & Match have flat tip bullets with a small tit in the center. Therefore, assuming CMP bulk is actually fallout from sorting other grades, it must come from Eley edge, Eley club or Eley target.

So knowing that bullet weight alone is not a good indication on how well a cartridge will shoot I pulled & weighed 10 bullets of the following: CMP bulk Eley (over 2 yrs old), CCI Standard Velocity Target & Eley Match. The results are as follows:
CMP bulk Eley – Mean &Average: 41.2gr, Spread: 1.0gr. SD: 0.32gr
CCI Std. Vel. Target – Mean & Average: 39.9gr, Spread: 0.8gr, SD: 0.28gr
Eley Match – Mean & Average: 40.4gr, Spread: 0.0gr, Sd: 0.0gr
So I recalibrated the RCBS digital scale & measured the Eley again. No change. Every bullet weighed exactly 40.4grs. Some of you reading this may want to run a similar test on your ammo.

A few more interesting comments: Some use RWS R-50 for the chickens & pigs & RWS R-100 for the turkeys and rams. But note that one shooter does the opposite. He tends to use R-100 for the shorter distances & R-50 for the longer distances. For important matches he exclusively uses R-50. When I discussed it with him he said that R-50 tends to shoot better at the longer distances. He further stated “It’s screened to tighter tolerances than R-100 due to being much more popular in Europe where most of the competition is at 50 meters.”

Overall this was an interesting exercise. I hope it helps some of you reading this.

Wayne

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NRA Life (Benefactor & President's Council) Member, TSRA Life Member, NSSF Member, Author & Publisher of the Browning BPCR book
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Maj. Forrest Smith
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Re: 22 long rifle ammunition

Post by Maj. Forrest Smith »

I did some rim thickness checking on Eley "Match" .22 ammo fairly recently and only one round out of 100 rounds wasn't the same rim thickness. It didn't seem to make a difference of what lot of Match I had, the rim thickness was very very consistent round to round. The one odd round was only off by .001. The Lapua (Biathlon) I checked broke up into 3 separate thickness, again only being separated by .001. The main thing I saw was that the Eley had a narrower rim over the Lapua.
I also measured the AOL of the brass case of several different .22 ammo's. This was back about 10 years or so. The case length did vary from brand to brand. Eley (Match) being the shortest of the lots.
Adding your interesting findings, I still seeing no "rhythm or reason" to why one brand shoots well in one rifle and not well in the next. Or for that matter from the same ammo, lot to lot.
Saying you have a match chamber is not enough either. There is well over 15 different types of Match Chambers one could have in their rifle. Maybe how the barrel is indexed into your action, could have something to do with how one rifle can be picky to what .22 ammo it likes to next rifle that doesn't seem to matter that much what you feed it. Of the four .22 barrels I have on rifles, (Green Mountain, Douglas, 2 Shilen Ratchet barrels) and all of mine are pretty sensitive to what ammo they like. I don't mind the testing to find the right one, but I wish there was some clue in searching for replacement ammo, when the current tested ammo runs out!
mdeland
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Re: 22 long rifle ammunition

Post by mdeland »

I found something interesting while exploring an idea I had and working over some Ruger 10-22's. I think I remember doing six different guns and it improved the accuracy in every one of them.
I simply cut the barrel face back about .070 or so until the bullet would engrave the rifling a bit, re-milled the clamp purchase and put the gun back together. Shortening the chamber enough so the bullet nose would engrave the rifling with no other alterations shrunk the group size in every single one of those guns, most by 50 percent or better. It was quite an eye opener for me and this with standard ammo, not match stuff.
My guess is that this little variable may be what causes how well a certain brand of ammo works in individual chambers.
mdeland
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Re: 22 long rifle ammunition

Post by mdeland »

I would add that after 100 yards or so I believe the main variable in accuracy can only be bullet shape and weight.
TexasMac
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Re: 22 long rifle ammunition

Post by TexasMac »

mdeland wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:54 pm I found something interesting while exploring an idea I had and working over some Ruger 10-22's. I think I remember doing six different guns and it improved the accuracy in every one of them.
I simply cut the barrel face back about .070 or so until the bullet would engrave the rifling a bit, re-milled the clamp purchase and put the gun back together. Shortening the chamber enough so the bullet nose would engrave the rifling with no other alterations shrunk the group size in every single one of those guns, most by 50 percent or better. It was quite an eye opener for me and this with standard ammo, not match stuff.
My guess is that this little variable may be what causes how well a certain brand of ammo works in individual chambers.
Mike,

I would support that with the comment that the guy that gets master class accuracy with any lot of the CMP bulk Eley has a tight chamber that depends on the breechblock forcing the nose firmly into the lead, while the same ammo groups poorly in other shooters rifles with looser commercial chambers. A couple of the shooters with tight match chambers report excellent results with their ammo. In this case I'm referring to a tight chamber as it relates to the length, but the match chambers also tend to be very snug concerning diameter.

Wayne
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mdeland
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Re: 22 long rifle ammunition

Post by mdeland »

Wayne, I have four reamers I use in .22 LR work. A standard Sammi spec, a Benze spec , Dan Theodore design he used in about ten chamberings for differing folks and one other match design I can't recall the name of just now (perhaps Pacific tool). The Benze is designed for semi-auto use in that it has a tight throat rather than relying on nose engravement which means a fairly long leade angle before the lands. It has worked really well on a couple of match pistols I have used it in and shot in a Ransom rest. This was only to 25 yards so have no idea how well it works farther out.
If I were going to re-chamber a 10/22 Ruger this would be what I'd use.
mdeland
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Re: 22 long rifle ammunition

Post by mdeland »

I've noticed that one of the Winchester match chamber designs ( I think developed for the 52) is tighter than Dicks hat band. Some ammo just will not chamber in them. I have a friend with a Browning HW and a Green Mountain barrel that is so chambered.
Kurt
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Re: 22 long rifle ammunition

Post by Kurt »

My CPA .22 was chambered with Paul's reamer and it's a very tight chamber and a .225" diameter bullet takes a firm push to chamber but the action has a generous cam movement that will finish seating the round.
Also my .22 match pistol is a High Standard "The Victor" and it has a tight chamber. I had that pistol mounted on a Ranson rest and it will just enlarge the hole with 10 shots at 25 yards. The chamber and properly machined that makes a fine shooter.
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Glen Ring
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Re: 22 long rifle ammunition

Post by Glen Ring »

We are not great small-bore silhouette shooters, but our kimber .22s are pretty good guns. We pulled them out of the gun safe and benched them with what we have..CCI Standard velocity and the groups were Ok at 100 meters, but not great. I then found a forgotten stash of CCI Sub Sonic and both rifles REALLY liked that ammo.
I was bench shooting and both guns stayed on the 1/10 scale air rifle swinger at 100 meters. Pretty good for old, cheap ammo and why that made a difference in groups from the CCI SV is beyond me.
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art ruggiero
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Re: 22 long rifle ammunition

Post by art ruggiero »

art those kimbers bolt guns? art
Glen Ring
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Re: 22 long rifle ammunition

Post by Glen Ring »

Yes sir. One REALLY likes RWS R-50, but they both shoot this old subsonic cci very well. I would assume they both have the same chambers and rifling. 22 s are a lot like women!! It takes some time to figure them out and then BAM they change their minds about 22 ammo.
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.
mdeland
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Re: 22 long rifle ammunition

Post by mdeland »

I have a close friend that has both a Kimber and Dakota bolt .22 rifle. The Kimber used to be accurate but for some reason quit shooting , not sure why. I like the rifle as whole but don't like the safety on them. It works but looks like and after thought!
The Dakota on the other hand is accurate and is the best looking .22 bolt gun i have ever seen !
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