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Re: 45-70 or 45-90
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:36 pm
by Michael Johnson
There is no better rifle to learn BPCR than the 45-70. I have a Shiloh No. 1 bought used in 45-70. It was my first. It has served me well for BPCR Silhouette and Midrange. With that rifle I learned reloading, casting and how to develop a rifle load with blackpowder. I had never reloaded before, but learned to do it all with a 45-70. Of my BPCR's it is the easiest to develop an accurate load for. I also have a Winchester Hiwall in 40-65, as well as Shilohs in 45-2.6 and 40-90SBN. Also have a Roller in 50-90. Get the 45-70!
Re: 45-70 or 45-90
Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:42 pm
by mdeland
Also should you ever get into the regrettable situation of needing to sell the gun the 45-70 will be easier to move for all the mentioned advantages.
if you want to extend the chamber on a 45-70 to 45-90 you will need a chamber reamer not just a throating reamer.
Re: 45-70 or 45-90
Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:01 pm
by TexasMac
mdeland wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:42 pm
Also should you ever get into the regrettable situation of needing to sell the gun the 45-70 will be easier to move for all the mentioned advantages.
if you want to extend the chamber on a 45-70 to 45-90 you will need a chamber reamer not just a throating reamer.
Mike,
Thanks for catching my error on the reamer.
Wayne
Re: 45-70 or 45-90
Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:08 pm
by Kurt
mdeland wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:42 pm
Also should you ever get into the regrettable situation of needing to sell the gun the 45-70 will be easier to move for all the mentioned advantages.
if you want to extend the chamber on a 45-70 to 45-90 you will need a chamber reamer not just a throating reamer.
Mike,
A throating reamer will work just fine if it's made for the existing chamber. Those two throating reamers below ave taken the 45º chamber transition out of several chambers and also extended a .40-70 into a .40-72 and several .45-70's into the .45-90.
The top is a .45 caliber and the bottom is a .40 cal. That .40 reamer also extended a .40-65 in fine shape.
Notice the rim recess bushing and stop ring. Very important to make a proper cut if using a T handle for the job if you don't have a lathe and a floating reamer chuck.
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Re: 45-70 or 45-90
Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:11 pm
by Lumpy Grits
I have both....
The '90 gets far more range time.
Both are easy to learn to load.
Gary
Re: 45-70 or 45-90
Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:33 pm
by mdeland
Yes, it can be made to work but it's not the best method, the problem is that a typical throater does not lengthen and cut the chamber end abruptly to a transition angle for the case mouth to abut. It also does not extend the chamber wall angle length the additional .300. Think of it like this, the 45-70 and the 45-90 have the same case mouth diameter but the angle from the case rim to the mouth of the case is slightly different in the longer case.
The purpose of a throater is to change the throat angle and lengthen it apart from the chamber body.
With a 45-90 chamber reamer in a 45-70 chamber that is on center you will find progressively more chips toward the front on the reamer flutes as it not only lengthens the chamber body but reestablishes the slight angle change .
Re: 45-70 or 45-90
Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:47 pm
by mdeland
I would also like to point out that wither or not a chamber has a transition angle from chamber into the throat ,it will have a de-facto transition angle anyway from the case neck thickness at the mouth. It will be a reverse angle into the throat.
Re: 45-70 or 45-90
Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:02 pm
by mdeland
I should have added that the reverse angle will be the case mouth chamfer and if no cbamfer angle is present than a 90 degree radial drop from case neck into the throat.
Re: 45-70 or 45-90
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:43 am
by mdeland
I wonder perhaps if paper rings can be made from bullet expansion at bump up in the throat by the de facto case mouth transition angle as in the reamer cut chamber transition angle?
Re: 45-70 or 45-90
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:33 am
by gunlaker
Kurt wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:08 pm
mdeland wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:42 pm
Also should you ever get into the regrettable situation of needing to sell the gun the 45-70 will be easier to move for all the mentioned advantages.
if you want to extend the chamber on a 45-70 to 45-90 you will need a chamber reamer not just a throating reamer.
Mike,
A throating reamer will work just fine if it's made for the existing chamber. Those two throating reamers below ave taken the 45º chamber transition out of several chambers and also extended a .40-70 into a .40-72 and several .45-70's into the .45-90.
The top is a .45 caliber and the bottom is a .40 cal. That .40 reamer also extended a .40-65 in fine shape.
Notice the rim recess bushing and stop ring. Very important to make a proper cut if using a T handle for the job if you don't have a lathe and a floating reamer chuck.
Kurt, who made those reamers for you?
thanks,
Chris.
Re: 45-70 or 45-90
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:20 am
by Kurt
Chris,
The top reamer was made by PT&G
And the bottom is a reamer made by Dave Manson Precision Reamers.
The bushings I made.
Re: 45-70 or 45-90
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:37 am
by Don McDowell
Shilohs standard chambers shoot paper patch just fine
Don’t believe me just look at what Ian is accomplishing with his
Re: 45-70 or 45-90
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:05 am
by Kenny Wasserburger
There is as Don said absolutely no good reason for a so called PP Chamber.
If you go that route your doomed to use pp bullets only. The standard chamber allows you to shoot any type of bullet.
The infamous 5@200 match, the world record group, of 1.336 inches for PP was fired with a Standard Shiloh chamber 45-110.
That rife has also won that match with a greaser
several years before.
Anybody that tells you the old 2-7/8 won’t shoot or isn’t competitive is full Of shit.
6 of 8 Nationals and Winter Nationals Scope titles were won with a 2-7/8ths. Two rifles both with standard chambers first one won was 2006 with GG bullet, 2015 mid-range was a 38-50 and a GG bullet.
In 2013, The infamous Hell Bitch 45-110 with PP won the Winter Nationals Creedmoor Scope, later in the year that same rifle won the the NRA Scope Creedmoor Nationals. 4 Americas Cup titles also won with those Standard Chambers.
As to the original poster’s Question. I would go with the 45-90. I don’t own a 45-70 at this time. That’s my personal preference, of course.
Kenny Wasserburger
Re: 45-70 or 45-90
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:52 am
by srkmarine1101
Thanks for your input! I am looking at starting off with silhouette shooting since I have a range locally here in WI that does it a few times a year. Do you think a 45-90 would still be appropriate for this? I do some some limited experience with shooting and loading for my previous rifle (45-70) that I had to sell years ago unfortunately.
I'll have to make sure the rifle I order meets weight restrictions for these matches too. So will have to start working that out...
Kenny Wasserburger wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:05 am
There is as Don said absolutely no good reason for a so called PP Chamber.
If you go that route your doomed to use pp bullets only. The standard chamber allows you to shoot any type of bullet.
The infamous 5@200 match, the world record group, of 1.336 inches for PP was fired with a Standard Shiloh chamber 45-110.
That rife has also won that match with a greaser
several years before.
Anybody that tells you the old 2-7/8 won’t shoot or isn’t competitive is full Of shit.
6 of 8 Nationals and Winter Nationals Scope titles were won with a 2-7/8ths. Two rifles both with standard chambers first one won was 2006 with GG bullet, 2015 mid-range was a 38-50 and a GG bullet.
In 2013, The infamous Hell Bitch 45-110 with PP won the Winter Nationals Creedmoor Scope, later in the year that same rifle won the the NRA Scope Creedmoor Nationals. 4 Americas Cup titles also won with those Standard Chambers.
As to the original poster’s Question. I would go with the 45-90. I don’t own a 45-70 at this time. That’s my personal preference, of course.
Kenny Wasserburger
Re: 45-70 or 45-90
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:03 pm
by Don McDowell
30 inch heavy barrel in 45-90 and never look back