.40-70 BN for Buffalo

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bobw
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Re: .40-70 BN for Buffalo

Post by bobw » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:27 pm

In the 2 nd photo I'm holding a 500500 Rapine ppb they are .500 dia and patched to .511" with Vellum,1 in 25 alloy. I do what works and in them old over/freebored Shiloh's that is what you have to do to make them shoot. I am not saying that is the only way but it 's what I found to work for ME. I don't know if most will recognize it but the diagonal line from the base to the ogive just above the meat in the nick is the scant line of my patch. At 1 in 25 alloy which I consider fairly hard as you'll all notice it didn't mushroom much. This bullet came out the end of my LRE at over 1500+fps and as you can see it did bump up nicely. The rifle has a 1 in 36" twist so bullets above 570 grs are getting marginal for it. bobw
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rdnck
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Re: .40-70 BN for Buffalo

Post by rdnck » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:31 pm

P.C. Bicknell wrote a letter to the Sharps factory on Dec. 30, 1876. You can read it on page 308 of Seller's book. He says in part "My partner shoots a Maynard40 cal ring ball 70 gr powder and 340 gr of lead. He shot a bull last week just to one side below the tail--the ball lodged in the tongue. the bull was 250 yards distant. Shooting from one side the balls mostly go through and frequently kill two at once. The Maynard seems to do as good work as the 44 cal Sharps".

The 40-70 Maynard is very similar to the 40-70 Sharps, except that the Maynard has a very different rim. I would expect that the performance of the two cartridges is very much the same. Having said that,I have to also say that I have only taken one animal with a 40, and that was a 10 point white tail at 132 yards in central Texas several years ago, using my 40-70 SS with a 385 grain round nosed paper patched bullet. Two things got my immediate attention at the time. One was that I have never heard a louder bullet impact, and the other was that the deer went straight down, RIGHT NOW on a high shoulder shot.

Shooting the same 385 grain paper patched bullet, both my 40-70 SS and my 40-65 run about the same velocity with the 40-70 being about 20 fps faster. This leads me to believe that the 40-65 will penetrate and kill as well as the 40-70, and I would not hesitate to use either on a buffalo. I know a 500 grain 45 caliber bullet at 1200 fps will shoot through and through a buffalo with boring regularity and I have never recovered a 500 grain bullet. I have killed a half dozen or so, and have witnessed another ten or twelve being taken with either a 45-70 or a 45-110. The 45 caliber 500 grain loads flat out WORK. The funny thing is, shooting logs for penetration tests, my 40-65 will usually, but not always out penetrate the 45-70 or the 45-110.

I don't intend to park my 45 caliber rifles, but I certainly am looking at my 40-65 and my 40-70 SS in a whole different light. Shoot straight, rdnck.
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Rufus Krile
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Re: .40-70 BN for Buffalo

Post by Rufus Krile » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:55 pm

Buddy had a young cow trying to get into the thicker cedar after he'd nailed it with his Win '86 in 45-70. He'd found it back in a cul-de-sac back off the sendero I was standing in... patiently waiting for his to do his thing. After two shots, the buff in question took off toward some really thick cedar breaks and was passing thru my part of the sendero. The old gal was dead, spraying lung tissue as she went by. I never saw the sights... it was basically a skeet shot at about 10ft and, shot thru both front shoulders, she quit right there. Not a bang flop, but if you break 'em down they'll stay put. Later shot my own at about 75yds... broke down front left quarter and sprayed spinal vertebrae all over the ground, but she still got about 25yds out in the cedar.

Later helped a friend assassinate some of his hog problem... turned one completely upside down with a high hit in the front shoulder... only to have it call me a dirty name, jump up and get out in the brush. The same patch of brush where we'd killed a 5ft rattlesnake the day prior. We figured the coyotes need to eat too.

These failures to boom-flop were all performed with a 500gr 1:25 45 cal bullet... none recovered... so there's no magic pill.

sandhillcowboy1
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Re: .40-70 BN for Buffalo

Post by sandhillcowboy1 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:39 am

A lot of good information in this thread, thanks all. Kurt, thanks for posting those videos of your hunt. That shows what the normal reaction is to mid body hits and also a good behind the ear shot, bang-flop. You would be surprised how many have missed those behind the ear shots;)

Here are a couple videos of bang-flops. A lot of you probably recognize Gussy. The other is Wild Bill shooting a 40-90 SBN 350 gr pp. Both CNS shots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpLs1t481yk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8ZaeOCNJdY

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MLV
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Re: .40-70 BN for Buffalo

Post by MLV » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:19 pm

As a matter of fact my guide was very impressed because I shot everything with one shot and I came away very pleased but thought game was kind of scare. Never shot a wart hog but you're probably thinking of the wildebeest. I was more slender but far from slender!
Beware the man with one rifle. He may not have enough interest in it to be competent!

mike in va
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Re: .40-70 BN for Buffalo

Post by mike in va » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:22 pm

Just to add a little more to the comparison of caliber, powder charge, and bullet weight related to stopping power of black powder cartridges: Many years ago while hunting in Zimbabwe, I had a H & H ten bore double rifle using a 1250 gr bullet with 275 gr of 3F. Up pops a nicely tusked warthog heading north at 40 yards. A near perfect Texas "heart" shot had no apparent effect! I thought I had missed. After a short 100 yard stroll we found him piled up. Bullet had trans-versed from one ham thru to the contra-lateral shoulder where it exited.

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kenny s
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Re: .40-70 BN for Buffalo

Post by kenny s » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:44 am

Wow, does your shoulder still hurt????
quite a cannon....

mike in va
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Re: .40-70 BN for Buffalo

Post by mike in va » Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:38 pm

NO shoulder problem, I could pop off 20 rounds anytime with no affect. The rifle was heavy enough that the recoil was a huge push--forcing a step backwards and the muzzle at a 45 degree up angle. Not like the neck snapping, tooth chattering of the 460 Weatherby. But the rifle that beat me up the most was an original Rem Rolling Block Creedmore with a 550 gr bullet and 100 gr 2F. Don't know how you long range target shooters handle it.

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