Here in Illinois we cant use a black powder cartridge rifle but they let people shoot these in line things that I see at the rands some are putting 4 pellets down the tube and seating a .45 caliber bullet with a sabot. To me that would be equivalent to using a .45 caliber rifle loaded with 200 grains of powder.
I just dont understand what the conservation dept. thinking is not letting a hunter to use a .45-70 Sharps or rolling block with a .45-70 black powder load. Maybe I should have Kirk make me a Shiloh with a 20 gauge rifled barrel and have RMC make some 3" brass and have 20 gauge marked on the case head and shoot slugs with that
Kurt
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"Winston Churchill
Kurt wrote:Here in Illinois we cant use a black powder cartridge rifle but they let people shoot these in line things that I see at the rands some are putting 4 pellets down the tube and seating a .45 caliber bullet with a sabot. To me that would be equivalent to using a .45 caliber rifle loaded with 200 grains of powder.
I just dont understand what the conservation dept. thinking is not letting a hunter to use a .45-70 Sharps or rolling block with a .45-70 black powder load. Maybe I should have Kirk make me a Shiloh with a 20 gauge rifled barrel and have RMC make some 3" brass and have 20 gauge marked on the case head and shoot slugs with that
Kurt
Kurt, then put together a muzzleloader with an 18 twist 45 barrel, load it with a paper patched bullet, and do the same thing. This is not hard. Hell, even I do it. Last year, I posted a picture of just how effective that can be in rural cornbelt farmland.
I understand exactly what the various Midwest states are doing in banning cartridge rifles. It is easy to figure out. And they never knew of 4-pellet, sabot shooters when they made those rules years ago.
Brent
Just straddling the hard line between "the arrogance of dogmatism and the despair of skepticism"
It states muzzle loading rifle or shot gun.
I talked to the head DNR and asked him if I could disable the lever with a screw in a 63 and use it as a muzzle loader, he said no!
Brent.
I'm getting ready to do just that.
I'm about to order a barrel and use the Hawken rifle I build and change out the slow twist ball barrel. Or I might just build a whole new St. Louis. I have the lock and trigger bar made all I need to make yet is the trigger guard and but plate and shoe.
I just may go that route.
Kurt
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"Winston Churchill
A .45 fast twist on a hawken has two issues. One is for sure real - that is the stock as too much drop generally and recoil will be nontrivial.
Second, and this may or may not be a real factor, bullet rifles of this type have a different breech - part of that is higher standards for steel and castings, but the other part is the way the nipple is machined to fit. There is more pressure on these guns and thus, the bottom of the nipple in this type of rifle should seat against the bolster. On a normal hawken, the nipple just hangs out there, allowing the pressure of the breech access to the threads and possible causing eventual failure.
You will want a platinum lined nipple, but that part is pretty easy.
Brent
Just straddling the hard line between "the arrogance of dogmatism and the despair of skepticism"
This is my last one I build. You can see that is still not done, the barrel is still not browned
It is not correct it started as a full stock and the barrel is to long plus it is a .58 caliber.
But it fits me really good and it has taken a lot of Deer. That big .58 ball when it hits the Deer just plain go down right now.
But you are right, a slug gun needs a different design but for a quick fix it would be easier to just switch barrels.
That rifle has a really nice piece of sugar maple tiger stripe wood I cut out of a log that has really darkened over the years from the burned acid finish I used on it.
Lately it just hangs over the kitchen window
Kurt
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"Winston Churchill
the argurment of line line vs traditional is lame the both shoot a bullet out the end you put it in and if you look back I think inline designe has been around a long time.why not shoot what you like and let the next guy do the same. as far a why states only allow only shotgun may not be what they think/ http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... n20512665/
My point in this post is not what a guy is using to hunt with. I don't care if he or she is using a front stuffer or a suppository stuffer or side stuffer, I could care less!! my point is a bullet fired from a in line will shoot just as far as a bullet that is shot from a .45-70 cartridge rifle!!
The answer I got from the DNR was some hunter could get shot from a guy using a .45-70 black powder cartridge rifle.
Kurt
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"Winston Churchill
And a guy could. What your DNR and Todd's and my DNR did not anticipate when muzzleloading seasons were first constructed was the reinvention and rediscovery of long-range muzzleloading. It just wasn't known. And if it had been, the rules would be entirely different. Something like "roundball season" instead (like Pennsyvania had or has), or maybe a limit on bullet length to caliber ratios (e.g. Colorado). But for me, I wish they would do away with scopes. Period. Just all of them. And I would vote for a roundball season in a nanosecond if given the chance.
But it will never happen. They will, instead, eventually just do away with the muzzleloaders all together.
Brent
Just straddling the hard line between "the arrogance of dogmatism and the despair of skepticism"
I personally feel it should be primitive, flint of percussion cap round ball.
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"Winston Churchill
Guys....it's not about what's used at all!! It's ABOUT COLLECTING REVENUE.....MONEY!!! DNR....if the truth were known couldn't give a rip one way or another about safety as that's just a lame excuse!! Any method by which the DNR of any state can figure out how to collect more $$$$$$....they're gonna do it!! When...or if....which I doubt the DNR folks will ever do....they figure out that they could charge a fee on a 'per rifle make basis'......they'll do it!!
Rick, I would say you are at best, half right. Probably less. Were you correct, we would have state wide, any deer center fire rifle tags. People would love to buy them, and howl because they are not permitted. DNRs are everybody's scapegoat. If they have any friends, I am not aware of them. No one admits to it.
Brent
Just straddling the hard line between "the arrogance of dogmatism and the despair of skepticism"
I'd vote for a couple day "flinter only" season too, then percussion after. No scopes and no pellets allowed.
DNR said, "some hunter could get shot from a guy using a .45-70 black powder cartridge rifle." Kurt, the key word is "cartridge". Doesn't matter if they are stuffed with Pyrodex. Some guy is going to take his auto or semi auto and spray the forest and fields with it. Filled with blackpowder or not. So, no cartridges in some highly populated with farm houses states. I guess shotgun slugs are suppose to be short range like muzzleloaders.
No sir....that's EXACTLY OPPOSITE from what I'm speaking to! DNR wants as many $$$$$ as possible generated from a multitude of license sales aka centerfire rifle, muzzle-loader, primitive weapon, buck tags, doe tags, etc.!! Anything that they can think of which would be on a 'per type of weapon'....they want $$$$$ from!!
Maybe I should have Kirk make me a Shiloh with a 20 gauge rifled barrel and have RMC make some 3" brass and have 20 gauge marked on the case head and shoot slugs with that 
