Saeco #022 bullet question

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pete
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Saeco #022 bullet question

Post by pete » Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:28 pm

Last week my wife and I went deer hunting and I lucked out and managed to kill a deer with the same rifle and load as I used for the antelope we got earlier. We had a fun time including the mile walk back to the truck in the dark after the deer was skinned and hung in a tree. Well ok my wife didn't think the walk back was that much fun but you have to hand it to a woman that'll do that. :)
The shot was 130 yds with a 45-70 shooting a Lyman 457125 Govt. bullet out of pure lead at 1240 fps. The entance was behind the shoulder angling back hitting a rib on the far side and exited leaving a 5/8 dia hole. The deer ran 165 yds.
The performance was a little disapointing compared to the 420 gr flat noses I've used before. The antelope was hit high breaking the back and required a coup de gras which while fatal wasn't really impressive either.

I want to stick with a heavier bullet because of the wind and have been looking at the Saeco #022 500 gr. flat point. Has anybody used this bullet and if so what do you think? I know there are some devout Govt. bullet users here so I expect some disagreements :)

Dan O
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Post by Dan O » Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:30 pm

http://www.brooksmoulds.com

Check out this site by Steve Brooks. He has a flat point hunting bullet that you can get in any weight you wish. I have one that gives a 490 grain 30-1 that is accurate. I haven't shot anything with it yet but have no doubt it will perform pretty well. It is a design that Brooks recommended when I told him what I was looking for.

Dan

rdnck
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The hit

Post by rdnck » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:21 am

pete--I suspect that the reason your deer ran 165 yards after you hit him with the round nosed Govt. bullet was the ANGLE you hit him at. If you hit him BEHIND the shoulder angling BACK towards the ribs, the bullet was going away from the lungs and heart which gives the quickest put down. At the angle you had, if you had him IN FRONT of the shoulder and angled back, you would have gotten into the lungs and he would not have gone as far.

It's a fine line, but you need to hit the animal in front of the diaphragm for the quickest put down, regardless of the nose shape. Shoot straight, rdnck.
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Michael Johnson
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Jones 45017

Post by Michael Johnson » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:25 pm

Pete, I have used the Jones 45017 flat nose bullet out of my 45-70 Shiloh with good success on deer and bison. They weigh 485 grains when cast in pure lead. - Mike
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pete
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Post by pete » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:16 pm

Dan and Michael ;
Thanks for the replies. Both of those look good. I have a Brooks flat point of my design that's 430 (pure lead) and 420 (20-1) but am hoping to get a heavier bullet from a budget mould so to speak. If I can't find what I'm looking for then the ones you mention are what I'll get. I want a new silhouette bullet too hence the predicament. :)

rdnck;
Thanks. Since I know most people don't want a long drawn out story I try to get to a point quickly and leave a thing or two out. The bullet path wasn't a severe angle and I did get both lungs and she had foamy blood in her mouth. The bullet clipped a rib going in and centered one going out and never was aft of the lung cavity. I've shot enough animals to know that such things happen but this example combined with the fairly small exit hole on the antelope finishing shot which was shot at 2 feet leaves me concerned.

It appears that if I do get this mould I'll be the only one on the forum to shoot one. Printing out an image that's adjusted to .458 dia. the meplat looks to be about .230 and the grooves are such that it won't use alot of case room. But I was hoping somebody might know for sure.

Kurt
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Post by Kurt » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:28 pm

Here you go Pete, get a few and see how they work out for you.


http://www.westernbullet.com/saeco022.html
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pete
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Post by pete » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:05 pm

Thanks Kurt great idea I appreciate it. I'll order some when they get some in stock.

mannyspd1
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Post by mannyspd1 » Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:54 pm

Pete,

I have tried the bullet in my two 45-70's, but I like the 457125 better.

I still have a few left and took some measurements for you:

1.245 oal, 520 grns. @ 40:1, base to bottom of first driving band is .540, base to top of first driving band is .637, meplat is .260.

I just couldn't get the accuracy I wanted in my rifles, but it may work better for you.

I got mine from Mt. Baldy bullets. Frank will cast them 20, 30, or 40:1 if you ask.

Manny
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pete
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Post by pete » Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:55 pm

Mannyspd1;

Thanks alot that's what I was looking for. Funny thing is that yesterday afternoon before I saw your post I just went ahead and ordered a mould from Midway. I did it because I checked for months this year and Midway was always out of stock and with Western Bullet being out of trial bullets too I thought I might as well get one before the moulds are gone again.
The meplat you measured is a little bigger than what I wanted. I measured the images from Saeco and hoped it would be around .230 - .240 but oh well I'm only shooting it out to around 200 yds.
I'm surprised it doesn't shoot better in your rifles as it's pretty much a govt. bullet with a flat point. If it shoots good enough it looks be an effective hunting bullet.

P.S. I just checked the Midway site and it's already out of stock. If it's a good bullet it was a good move and if not .....well you know.

Clarence
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Post by Clarence » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:17 am

I think the 1/4" +/- meplat will act much like the 457125. It may expand slightly more, but should still give good penetration.

On the other end of the spectrum, 3/8" meplat will definitely expand more, but will not penetrate as much (limited to 24-28" in my experience), and will generally be found under the skin on an angling shot, with pass-throughs only on broadside shots.

Clarence

pete
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Post by pete » Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:38 pm

Well I cast some pure lead speciman's and they are a good looking hunting bullet.
Having said that the nose measures .449 and after sizing and seating it's .450. The sizing operation obviously causes the nose to bump up a little with pure lead. At any rate it wouldn't chamber after 2 shots without using a dowel to force the cartridge in with. Sounds like a good hunting setup huh? I'll send it back to Midway with an explanation why. :roll: Saeco must make their molds catered towards smokeless shooters.

Clarence
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Post by Clarence » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:35 pm

Pete,

If the pure lead bullet bumped up like you said, why are you sending the mould back to Midway? That's your problem, not the mould's.

Try casting it 30/1, be carefule when you run them through the lube-sizer and seater (either can bump the nose), and try again.

Clarence

pete
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Post by pete » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:02 pm

Clarence;

I've had good luck with pure lead on animals with a Brooks 430 gr. flat point and Lyman 457132. I haven't had any problem with them or the Lyman govt. with regard to bumping up like I'm having with this bullet because the noses on those others are small enough to not be a factor. Lead really expands in a flat point and works good.

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