Good paper patched hunting bullet for 45-70 BP

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craigos
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Good paper patched hunting bullet for 45-70 BP

Post by craigos »

Hi All

Anyone recommend a good paper patched hunting bullet for a 45-70 - for Bison (yearling - so relatively small)? I recall seeing a post, I cant find it now, of a pure lead flat nose bullet that was paper patched.

Am booked on a shoot in Oct, and would like to go BP with PP.

Regards
Craig
rdnck
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Re: Good paper patched hunting bullet for 45-70 BP

Post by rdnck »

Get in touch with Stephen Borud. He can fix you up. He made the mold for the bullet you are talking about. Shoot straight, rdnck.
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Up In Smoke
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Re: Good paper patched hunting bullet for 45-70 BP

Post by Up In Smoke »

I would recommend giving a serious look at an adjustable mould that allows the advantage of setting the mould at the bullet weight you desire. I got mine from Brooks Moulds, and am very satisfied with it.
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bobw
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Re: Good paper patched hunting bullet for 45-70 BP

Post by bobw »

All good advice so far. but you should check these molds out....http://www.kal.castpics.net/Molds.html . The .442 with a 9lb onion skin would work fine, they will adj down to 400 grs easy or up to 600+. They kill buffalo fine. With it adj to 500+ grs you will be able to handle the Quigley buffalo as well. This is as close to a one mold, one gun concept as you can get, 45TGBS in .442". Send Powderburner a pm he might have a new one on hand. bobw
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craigos
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Re: Good paper patched hunting bullet for 45-70 BP

Post by craigos »

What about the pure lead BACO .444 550gn? My wife doesnt want me to cast at home (she worried about lead etc) as we have young children. Sufficient?
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Don McDowell
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Re: Good paper patched hunting bullet for 45-70 BP

Post by Don McDowell »

Put out a call for someone with a suitable sharps styled mould to send you some 1.1 inch bullets at .442 diameter. That's the bullet that made the 2.1 case famous.
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Jim VanMiddlesworth
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Re: Good paper patched hunting bullet for 45-70 BP

Post by Jim VanMiddlesworth »

[quote="craigos"]What about the pure lead BACO .444 550gn? My wife doesnt want me to cast at home (she worried about lead etc) as we have young children. Sufficient?[/quote]

My wife used to give me hell for casting in the garage. She'd smell fumes in the house and complain that I was slowly killing us all. I tried to explain that all she was smelling was the flux burning off and that lead will not vaporize at such low temps. All to no avail.

The next time I went for a yearly physical I asked my doctor to test my blood for lead. He raised his eyebrows and wanted to know why so I explained the situation. A few days later the doctor's office called and said that any lead below 25 whatever the measure is, is safe. Mine was 3, and that was after years of casting. When my wife got home that day I told her to quit badgering me about casting and I've not heard a word about it in 6 years.

A few months ago I was tested for lead since I work as a firearms instructor for the sheriff's office. The results were the same as 6 years ago. Your mileage may vary.
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Jim VanMiddlesworth
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Re: Good paper patched hunting bullet for 45-70 BP

Post by Jim VanMiddlesworth »

[quote="craigos"]What about the pure lead BACO .444 550gn? My wife doesnt want me to cast at home (she worried about lead etc) as we have young children. Sufficient?[/quote]

My wife used to give me hell for casting in the garage. She'd smell fumes in the house and complain that I was slowly killing us all. I tried to explain that all she was smelling was the flux burning off and that lead will not vaporize at such low temps. All to no avail.

The next time I went for a yearly physical I asked my doctor to test my blood for lead. He raised his eyebrows and wanted to know why so I explained the situation. A few days later the doctor's office called and said that any lead below 25 whatever the measure is, is safe. Mine was 3, and that was after years of casting. When my wife got home that day I told her to quit badgering me about casting and I've not heard a word about it in 6 years.

A few months ago I was tested for lead since I work as a firearms instructor for the sheriff's office. The results were the same as 6 years ago. Your mileage may vary.
"Dyin' aint much of a livin', boy"
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Re: Good paper patched hunting bullet for 45-70 BP

Post by Kurt »

There is nothing wrong with a good flat nosed bullet for hunting. I personally like the original sporting bullets for hunting myself or the full round nosed like the government bullet. They will pass through easily with out a problem and make a clean blow through to drain the boiler room of air and blood.
I like the two .44's on the left for hunting. The first from the left is a 44-77 with a .432" 485 gr. They will drop a Buff on the first shot and kick up sand big time with a clean pass through. And that bullet will also put a gray spot on a iron buff at 1580 yards using the .44-77 with barrel sights. Good bullet.
The second round from the left is over kill for a buff. That is a .44-2-5/8 with the same bullet.

Either the FN or the originals will serve you fine on a Bison.

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WHO CARES
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Re: Good paper patched hunting bullet for 45-70 BP

Post by WHO CARES »

For my first PP bullet for black powder I contacted Accurate Moulds and he modified one of his designs slightly so I could end up with a bullet that matched in weight the Paul Jones 45018 grease groove I had been using. As I use the barrel sights I wanted to try to keep things going to the same point of aim. We ended up with his 45-475P design which sports an approx .25 meplat, casts at .442, weighs 470 grains, and measures just about 1.1" when cast of 30/1. My load is 68 grains of Old Eyn 2F compressed .200, .03 card, 3/16" lube, .03 - card - then finger seat the patched bullet. This load shoots to the same point of aim as my grease groove bullet with my open sights - penny front. My better groups at 100 yards will hold about 2" but mostly I'm shooting about 3" which I consider just fine for my eyes with the barrel sights. Unfortunately I have no reports on game performance yet to offer but I'm sure it will do just fine.

Several years ago, the 480 grain 30/1 Paul Jones 45018 shot thru a 2 1/2 year old bison bull at 85 yards and stopped him right there out of this same 2.1" 45 Shiloh. That load was 65 grains Goex Express 2F.

I'm very pleased with the Accurate mould. I chose it as a economical start into a new direction of black powder shooting.

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mannyspd1
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Re: Good paper patched hunting bullet for 45-70 BP

Post by mannyspd1 »

Here is a yearling bison taken with a .442 diameter PP 550 grain pure lead from Buffalo Arms, out of a 45-110 at 1378 fps. At a little over 140 yards, the bullet broke both shoulders and exited. I finished him with a head shot.

Image

The shell looks like the top one, the bottom cartridge has a 457125.

Image

All this being said, you might want to try the 500 grain version of the above bullet in the 45-70, rather than the 550 grain.

Good Luck,
Manny
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bruce m
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Re: Good paper patched hunting bullet for 45-70 BP

Post by bruce m »

interesting from rywell.page 118 shows 2 different 550 gn bullets advertised by sharps in 45 cal.one is1 13/32 long, ant the other is a special long range bullet that appears to be 1 15/16 long.
both are patched, the former being $15.00 per 1000, and the latter being$18.00 per 1000.
the advertised length of the latter must be a misprint. my guess is it should be 1 15/32.
we see pictures of blunter bullets in some sharps cartridges, and these must have been for hunting. brooks advertises such a mould.
the 45 2.1 was loaded with a 420 gn bullet in patched form by sharps which was 1 1/10 long, again according to rywell.
these were $13.00 per 1000.
manny,
how much of what powder gives you that speed?
keep safe,
bruce.
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rdnck
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Re: Good paper patched hunting bullet for 45-70 BP

Post by rdnck »

Good job, Manny. That 45-110 carries the freight, for sure. Shoot straight, rdnck.
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mannyspd1
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Re: Good paper patched hunting bullet for 45-70 BP

Post by mannyspd1 »

Bruce,

That load is 98 grains of Kik 2f. I have about 8 pounds of Goex Express 1f left but I am using that only in my 50 2 1/2.

Hi Bill, thanks for all the tips on paperpatch ( Thanks to Kenny W too) as that is all that 45 2 7/8 sees now.

Manny
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Nuclearcricket
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Re: Good paper patched hunting bullet for 45-70 BP

Post by Nuclearcricket »

Congrats Manny, nice hunt and great Buff.
While I have not had the pleasure of making a kill with BP and lead, I do very enthusiastically read all of the hunting stories and especially the loads used. Somehow I just get the feeling after reading these and especially yours Manny, that I, and perhaps most of us have been mislead for years. We have been told that if we are not using jacketed bullets, they need to be hard, flat nosed and/or hollow-pointed to be lethal. That a soft bullet will just ball up and not exit. Round nosed bullets are not good for hunting. To kill efficiently we need heavy jacketed bullets, heavy hard recoiling cartridges massive scopes muzzle breaks and all that sort of stuff. Time and time again you fine people go out in the field and prove all those theories wrong.
I personalty think it is a wonderful thing that all of you fine folks take these fine rifles and great old cartridges out in the field and prove that they are as good if not better game getters today as they were when they were the only choice you had. My hat is off to all of you and hope that you continue to have great success in future trips afield.
Sam
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