Blackpowder smoke cloud question

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coolhand
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Blackpowder smoke cloud question

Post by coolhand » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:47 am

Hey Guys,
I'm new here so don't flame me right away! LOL I have a Shiloh Sharps ordered in 45-90. I will use it for hunting Whitetail and hogs here in south Texas. I intend to shoot black powder so I have a question about the resulting smoke cloud. I know it might seem funny, but here in south Texas the bucks are large bodied and the brush is thick! When you shoot a buck it is very important to see how he reacts to the hit, and which way he goes if he runs. The brush is literally so thick it hard to even walk through. From what I have read, most animals shot with these old calibers don't fall on the spot. And with the big slow bullets, I'm not sure the blood trail will be good. So, with the blackpowder shot will I be able to see the deer immediately after the shot? In our kind of country, they can make it two jumps and be gone. If you know the reaction and direction it's not a big problem. Thanks

BFD
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Re: Blackpowder smoke cloud question

Post by BFD » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:54 am

"It just depends".

The first time I shot an elk with a Sharps I ducked under the cloud of smoke to see that the bull was down. From time to time I don't see them drop or run because of smoke, but it is rare. Even the slightest breeze is usually enough to break up the smoke and let you see what happens. When bird hunting or trap shooting I have had to ask if I hit anything a time or two as well. It is not a big deal.

As for blood trails, those are usually pretty good. You should generally get two holes, and they are pretty good sized holes at that. They may run a bit but not far if well hit.

Orville
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Re: Blackpowder smoke cloud question

Post by Orville » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:59 am

Shoot them further away the smoke will clear before the bullet gets there :lol: :lol:
Charter Member O-G-A-N-T

Shooting grease groove bullets in a sharps is new technology and just a passing fad.

jackrabbit
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Location: Carpenter Wyoming

Re: Blackpowder smoke cloud question

Post by jackrabbit » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:06 am

Sounds like you probably best shoot them in the head..... :lol: :lol: In all seriousness, I don't think there is anything to worry about. I have killed something over 30 game animals with my 45-70s and have never really noticed the smoke cloud preventing me from seeing the shot. I usually have a pretty good idea of where they were hit. Off the top of my head, I can't really think of any of my animals that went very far when they were hit well. Hunting in Wyoming is much different than the type of hunting you are talking though. The big, slow, bullets I use always penetrate clean through the animal so there is considerable leakage. The fact is, however, that hunting with the holy black and a Sharps is tougher than using your 308. It is more challenging, but I think much more fun. Anymore when I open the safe to grab a rifle to go hunting, I always grab a BPCR rifle and black powder shells. The 308, 300, and 375 are gathering quite a layer of dust.
Good luck and have fun, Cody

Clarence
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Location: Hill Country, TX

Re: Blackpowder smoke cloud question

Post by Clarence » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:35 pm

Like Brent said, you will most often be able to see, unless the conditions have almost no wind.

The bullets from these rifles need not be poor killers. I've taken Shilohs to Africa twice, and animals die quickly with good hits. I built a simple jig and flat-pointed the bullets (the same 535 gr, ones I use for silhouette). With a 5/16-3/8" meplat, the bullets shoot to the same point of aim at hunting distances, and I have a number of recovered bullets weighing 450-500 gr. and having penetrated 24-28" (quartering shots-broadside shots all exited). No animal hit made any more than the normal run you'd expect from a lung/heart shot, and bullets hitting the shoulder resulted in DRT. I shot a blue wildebeest in the lungs, and could see the blood spurting from the entry hole as the rifle came out of recoil. He took 5-10 steps before going down.

Rdnck, who posts here frequently, advocates for a Lyman 457125 (the 525 gr. roundness), and has made numerous good kills with it. I don't remember his alloy. I also think that that bullet has a blunt enough nose to have a lot of "swat" but still penetrate well.

Clarence

BFD
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Re: Blackpowder smoke cloud question

Post by BFD » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:40 pm

Clarence wrote:I shot a blue wildebeest in the lungs, and could see the blood spurting from the entry hole as the rifle came out of recoil. He took 5-10 steps before going down.
Interestingly, I shot a warthog like that. As it spun, it had a spout of blood that looked like a garden hose coming out of it.

But it ran 90 meters. Surprised the heck out of me.

I had a doe whitetail do something similar from a double-shoulder, double-lung shot and she ran over 300 yds. And without a lot of blood. that was just crazy and I have never seen anything like it. That was also a flatnosed bullet as well.

I guess the point is, crazy things can and do happen, but that's true with modern highpowers too.

coolhand
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Re: Blackpowder smoke cloud question

Post by coolhand » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:02 pm

Guys,
Thanks for the replies. I forgot to note that my ranges will be a max of 100 yds. I was thinking of a 45-90 "Express" type loading for this gun with a 300-350g bullet. I would be interested in any loadings like that. I want something that I can punch through the shoulders and drop him right there.

BFD
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Re: Blackpowder smoke cloud question

Post by BFD » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:04 pm

coolhand wrote:Guys,
Thanks for the replies. I forgot to note that my ranges will be a max of 100 yds. I was thinking of a 45-90 "Express" type loading for this gun with a 300-350g bullet. I would be interested in any loadings like that. I want something that I can punch through the shoulders and drop him right there.

Nothing will do the DRT thing every single time, but you should be doing well with that. I'd go a little heavier and might try really hard bullets with big meplats. But hard or soft a big flat nose will generally get it done

Rufus Krile
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Location: South Texas

Re: Blackpowder smoke cloud question

Post by Rufus Krile » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:28 pm

coolhand wrote:Guys,
Thanks for the replies. I forgot to note that my ranges will be a max of 100 yds. I was thinking of a 45-90 "Express" type loading for this gun with a 300-350g bullet. I would be interested in any loadings like that. I want something that I can punch through the shoulders and drop him right there.

You might want to look at the NOE lineup of bullets... They have a 350gr with flat meplat that also casts as a cup point or hollow point. Down here in South Texas you've undoubtedly noticed that there's ALWAYS some wind so follow-on may not be a problem.

VBull
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Re: Blackpowder smoke cloud question

Post by VBull » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:43 pm

I've had excellent results using the Lyman / Gould 330 gr HP bullet cast soft. Like 40/1 or so on whitetails.
I use it in several 45-70's and in an older White systems .45 cal. muzzle loader after sizing it down to .454 dia.
The muzzle loader uses 80 gr. of Goex 3F, .060 poly wad and the bullet ends up lightly engraved when I push it down on top of the wad.
I've shot a good many deer with it during our muzzle loader season and most don't move very far at all.

I don't have my load data for the 45-70 in front of me but it worked fine in one of my Trapdoors.
Good luck

VBull
Posts: 162
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Re: Blackpowder smoke cloud question

Post by VBull » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:43 pm

I've had excellent results using the Lyman / Gould 330 gr HP bullet cast soft. Like 40/1 or so on whitetails.
I use it in several 45-70's and in an older White systems .45 cal. muzzle loader after sizing it down to .454 dia.
The muzzle loader uses 80 gr. of Goex 3F, .060 poly wad and the bullet ends up lightly engraved when I push it down on top of the wad.
I've shot a good many deer with it during our muzzle loader season and most don't move very far at all.

I don't have my load data for the 45-70 in front of me but it worked fine in one of my Trapdoors.
Good luck

sandhillcowboy1
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Re: Blackpowder smoke cloud question

Post by sandhillcowboy1 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:04 pm

coolhand wrote:Hey Guys,
So, with the blackpowder shot will I be able to see the deer immediately after the shot? In our kind of country, they can make it two jumps and be gone. If you know the reaction and direction it's not a big problem. Thanks
If you hunt long enough you will have times where the smoke obscures the prey after the shot. It doesn't happen enough to deter me from hunting with blackpowder however. Just make sure that first shot counts! :)

Rick
SHCB1

Clarence
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Location: Hill Country, TX

Re: Blackpowder smoke cloud question

Post by Clarence » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:25 pm

I understand that one of our posters, deerhuntsheatmeup, loaded the 330 gr. Lyman-Gould hollow point for Mississippi deer and hogs. It worked fine for deer. He shot a very large hog, made it very angry, and was concerned that he had become the hunted rather than the hunter. He now uses something with more reliable penetration. I would think that hollow point bullet would be a quick, reliable killer on light Texas deer. I may have a few for you to try before you invest in your own mould; pm me if interested.

Clarence

BFD
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Re: Blackpowder smoke cloud question

Post by BFD » Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:34 pm

FWIW, it is not unusual for a spotter to be smoked out by his shooter's smoke cloud when spotting for BPCR. Still, on wildlife, I find it a very rare problem. More common with birds like pheasants than deer.

Brent

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DAVE ROELLE
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Re: Blackpowder smoke cloud question

Post by DAVE ROELLE » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:23 pm

Clarence is spot on---------------i use 500 grain Creedmore style bullets paper patched with machined hollowpoints--------------deer run a few steps

hogs have all been DRT--------------------all hits have been complete pass throughs with large exits

Bullet alloy is 10 BN

I hunt near Goliad with some really nasty "blackbrush" thickets----------------

Oh 45-70 82 grains of Swiss 1 1/2

Dave
your never lost, if ya don't care where ya are

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