Special Catagory Awards

This is where you can place your scores from the matches. It uses an excel spread sheet! If you send me your sheet of scores I can put it on the forum and provide a link where everyone can view it.

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jackrabbit
Posts: 1792
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:04 pm
Location: Carpenter Wyoming

Re: Special Catagory Awards

Post by jackrabbit »

I was wondering what everyone thought the reason was for the smaller attendance this year? There were quite a few missing faces. Was it just a fluke and the numbers will be back up next year, or did the dates being close to the 4th mess people up? Or? As a match director myself, whenever we have a match with low entries we try to analyze why and try to figure out what we can do to fix it.

Also, Glen, yes I do have much to learn about life. Hopefully I will always be learning, but I don't think that has anything to do with my statements about why people first come to the Nationals. Trust me, I have tried to sell go to the Nationals every which way possible and the only one that works is through the thought of competition. When you specifically ask these first time to Raton shooters why they came, the answer is because they want to shoot.
Off to bale hay! Take care my friends, Cody
BFD
Posts: 2789
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:36 pm

Re: Special Catagory Awards

Post by BFD »

Cody, I think you are wrong about motivations for the majority, or at least a large segment of the shooters. Read Beth's message again, particularly this, "A good question to ask is...who actually supports & pays for the Nationals? Is it the 15-20 guys at the top who realistically have a shot to win the top spot, or is it the majority of the AAA, AA, A & B shooters who pay the bulk of the entries so that there can BE a Nationals? "

You think about the contenders because you are one of them. But, as Beth points out, there are only a handful of contenders. The bulk of support come from the rest of the shooters. Why do they come (or not come)? You notice the names that are missing - of which you are one this year. But are the names you notice are on the "big dinger list" or the everybody else list (I worry more about the latter)? I don't know why Steve and Beth didn't come. They haven't been there for a couple of years or more, if my memory serves (it frequently doesn't). The matches are much better now than there were the last time I remember seeing them on the firing line.

For most of the folks for whom I know their motivation for not coming, it was overwhelmingly medical. I sure hope those are rectified. But some like yourself, didn't come for other reasons and that may or may not align with next year's matches.

For those of you that have not gone in a while, or have not gone at all, the matches have never been better presented, and they may not be there much longer. So plan on going now. They may not be there when you, "get around to it".

For better or worse, I will be there.
buffalocannon
Posts: 1583
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 2:03 pm

Re: Special Catagory Awards

Post by buffalocannon »

Jackrabbit, I have never met you and I have never been to the Nationals but you sure do make a lot of sense to me when it comes to shooting matches.
jackrabbit
Posts: 1792
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:04 pm
Location: Carpenter Wyoming

Re: Special Catagory Awards

Post by jackrabbit »

BFD wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:32 am Cody, I think you are wrong about motivations for the majority, or at least a large segment of the shooters. Read Beth's message again, particularly this, "A good question to ask is...who actually supports & pays for the Nationals? Is it the 15-20 guys at the top who realistically have a shot to win the top spot, or is it the majority of the AAA, AA, A & B shooters who pay the bulk of the entries so that there can BE a Nationals? "
Thank you for the intelligent discussion Brent. The only thing I wanted to clarify is that I am not talking about the high overall when I am talking about winning. I am talking about placing in or winning each of the classes, as well as the high overall. When I was a AA shooter, the goal was to place in or win AA, same as when I was AAA. I think one of the most beautiful things about silhouette is the classes where we try to group shooters of similar abilities together. The class prizes should be 90%+ of whatever is going to the high overalls. In my mind, starting at the bottom and working your way up to winning National Champion in A, AA, or AAA means maybe more than the guy that easily wins high overall repeatedly. I know that on my trophy shelves in my house, a couple of the awards I smile at the most are high AA and high AAA. They mean more to me than many of my match winner awards.
SFogler
Posts: 524
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 9:19 am

Re: Special Catagory Awards

Post by SFogler »

I am talking about placing in or winning each of the classes, as well as the high overall. When I was a AA shooter, the goal was to place in or win AA, same as when I was AAA. I think one of the most beautiful things about silhouette is the classes where we try to group shooters of similar abilities together. The class prizes should be 90%+ of whatever is going to the high overalls. In my mind, starting at the bottom and working your way up to winning National Champion in A, AA, or AAA means maybe more than the guy that easily wins high overall repeatedly.
I got tired of being a A/B silhouette shooter and I decided to put together my best loads in my best rifle instead of "experimenting" with a couple of other rifles with various loads I was developing. This last monthly match at Watkins I took my Ben Avery proven mid range rifle and I shot a 31 with 10 pigs, 10 turkeys, and 9 rams. I won the match by a 6 point margin over 5 other AAA shooters. That 10 turkey pin with a AAA score means more to me than the BACO bullet mold I got last year as a "door prize" at a LR match. Yes I used the bullet mold to cast the bullets that I shot the silhouette match with, and yes I enjoy getting useful prizes, but realizing I can actually compete at the next level has me motivated in a way no prize ever could. Like Cody says - I go to shoot and compete and hopefully learn how to shoot better from others there. Everything else is icing on the cake.
Glen Ring
Posts: 904
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:45 pm

Re: Special Catagory Awards

Post by Glen Ring »

I think the start of this back and forth was considering the special category awards. Most, who have never ran a big match, don't know that there is an NRA program that the names, numbers and special categories are entered into. There has to be at last 4 entered into that category for the winner to receive an award. The computer spits out the winners and their order with unemotional accuracy. If , say at this year's BPCR match there were at least 4 woman in that category, there would have been an award noted on the sheet.

I've been married to the match director for 42 years and she was as surprised as I was when my Name was called for the AAA shoot off. I had cleaned my gun , put it up and was enjoying fun conversation with fellow shooters . That shoot off interrupted my eating good food, and telling old jokes to a group of fine fellows.

I'm with Brent all the way...enjoy life , shoot the best you can for a few minutes on the line and then enjoy life some more.
Three of my shooting buds died this year and if they could talk they'd tell you the same thing...Take time to cook some bacon, make good coffee and shoot a little.
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.
Kenny Wasserburger
Posts: 4728
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 3:53 pm
Location: Gillette, Wyoming

Re: Special Catagory Awards

Post by Kenny Wasserburger »

If anyone had been around Bryan and I and Jim Gier, and Jim Rodebaugh, we had a great time, I shot poorly still sorting out fouling control and trigger control on my 40-70. The rattle gun aspect of BPCR silhouette doesn’t appeal to me like target rifle’s pace.

However it had nothing to do with my focus on my 3 shooters. We had a blast an absolute blast,
Frankly I am more proud of my award, thanks to Aron Farmer, than any-other silhouette award I have ever won.

As the recipient of A very special category covering all four days of big bore Silhouette, what we lack most, is squarely on the shoulders of the NRA, that being promoting the match. Use media, and get the word out. Not a single person that attended Raton can complain, it was the best run Nationals I have ever attended.

Advertising will make a huge difference. Let them know the new match director and her crew put on one hell of a match.

Kenny Wasserburger
We'll raise up our Glasses against Evil Forces, Singing, Whiskey for my men, Beer for my horses.

Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter
Kenny Wasserburger
Posts: 4728
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 3:53 pm
Location: Gillette, Wyoming

Re: Special Catagory Awards

Post by Kenny Wasserburger »

One other thing that was mentioned by Glen I believe , stepping outside the box. Here’s one it’s a national Championship, even if we only have one woman or 3, the same for juniors. We should have have a High Woman, or High Junior recognition.

How about stepping outside the NRA’s box, advertising and some common sense awards, forget Senior class for one.

Kenny Wasserburger
We'll raise up our Glasses against Evil Forces, Singing, Whiskey for my men, Beer for my horses.

Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter
S & B Morris
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 11:47 pm
Location: Western Washington

Re: Special Catagory Awards

Post by S & B Morris »

Brent,
I'm so hurt you don't remember....Steve & I were at Raton last year. I even showed you & Al my brachiopod fossil that I found.
Beth
"Be kinder than necessary, because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
BFD
Posts: 2789
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:36 pm

Re: Special Catagory Awards

Post by BFD »

Beth,
That was LAST year? I guess I have a pretty faulty sense of time. Seems like it was at least a couple of years ago.

You guys were missed this year. Hope you make it next year.
art ruggiero
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:00 pm

Re: Special Catagory Awards

Post by art ruggiero »

give juniors a discount on the match fee when shooting with a family member. makes it more affordable art
BFD
Posts: 2789
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:36 pm

Re: Special Catagory Awards

Post by BFD »

art ruggiero wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:26 pm give juniors a discount on the match fee when shooting with a family member. makes it more affordable art
Agreed. A BIG discount. 50% at least. 75%- 80% if possible.
bobw
Posts: 3841
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:52 pm

Re: Special Catagory Awards

Post by bobw »

BFD wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:28 pm
art ruggiero wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:26 pm give juniors a discount on the match fee when shooting with a family member. makes it more affordable art
Agreed. A BIG discount. 50% at least. 75%- 80% if possible.
In a country that continually pushing political correctness and zero tolerance on any form of discrimination, you guys are advocating discrimination? WTF????? :shock: :roll: bobw
bobw
BFD
Posts: 2789
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:36 pm

Re: Special Catagory Awards

Post by BFD »

bobw wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:27 pm
BFD wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:28 pm
art ruggiero wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:26 pm give juniors a discount on the match fee when shooting with a family member. makes it more affordable art
Agreed. A BIG discount. 50% at least. 75%- 80% if possible.
In a country that continually pushing political correctness and zero tolerance on any form of discrimination, you guys are advocating discrimination? WTF????? :shock: :roll: bobw
]

OK Bob, guilty as charged. I guess I don't care about being politically correct about being politically incorrect.
Dan O
Posts: 737
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 3:05 pm
Location: Great Falls Montana

Re: Special Catagory Awards

Post by Dan O »

Cody I agree with you a 100%. I first went to the Nationals in 2016 with the rest of the Montana guys. I went to experience the top match in the country with folks from all over the world. I went with the intent to shoot my best and when the dust settles see how I did. In 2016 the Creedmoor was held after the BPCR matches. This was the first time I shot this course of fire, it was all new to me. I had a great spotter and ended up as high scope winner. Yup I was surprised and darn happy. I returned for 2017 & 2018 BPCR and had a great time. Each trip you meet new people and learn more about the tricks of the trade so to say.

As time goes by you meet more people and make friends you may only see once a year. As time goes by then yes I see where the socializing becomes more important and becomes a part of the experience. BUT with out the desire to shoot your best and excel in this sport the Nationals will fail. This must not happen.

One of the main problems with BPCR is the cost to get into it. Most younger people are raising family's and trying to make a good life for them. Also the time required to cast, load and practice is something most younger guys don't have. Face it building a good black powder load is time intensive. This is one reason a lot of young guys enjoy other shooting venues. Cranking out 100 6.5 CM rounds is a lot quicker and easier on a Dillon. Instant gratification you might say fit's this venue.


I enjoyed Brent's post and pictures and his story line. He has been at it for sometime and for him, Woody and Al they have expanded their experience beyond just the shooting aspect. I'm sure this did not happen over night.


Hopefully the NRA will promote BPCR and work with all shooters with respect and desire to put on a great match. Many of our shooters are getting on in years and they should keep that in mind. Do their best to make it as good as possible.


Thanks,

Dan
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