Harris Minnesota Regional ended today

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desert deuce
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Location: Rio Rico, Arizona

Harris Minnesota Regional ended today

Post by desert deuce »

Native drums along the upper Mississippi River are carrying faint messages about the results of the Harris Long Range Match.
Drum beats say Wisconsin border jumper brought Distant Thunder to the match and Distant Thunder won the day.
Rest of message obscured by lots of smoke. Something about Pale Faces. Hopefully official results will be posted soon.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
Kurt
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Re: Harris Minnesota Regional ended today

Post by Kurt »

Well Deuce, you and the rest that didn't come missed a fine and very hospitality and friendly match.

Dave Newell, and our Mike-T and line boss Rick ? did an outstanding job with this match.
Bob Saathoff started it Friday evening after practice with a fine evening supper of some very good brats, tader salad, baked beans and water melon and Brent Danielson shared some of his fine grilled squirrel and some fine barly pop to wash it down with.
Saturday noon Dave Newell and his Misses and Gals served a fine lunch and trimmings. Man what hospitality they have at a well run relaxed friendly match. It should be advertised more. I wish I would have heard about it years before.
Jim Klusken (sp) took top honors in the 500'rds Brent I think was his spotter that kept him on the paper with some tough switching two day winds.
Steve ? can't remember his last name came up from Indiana took second. Very good new black powder shooter less than a year making smoke.
Brent came in third.
I'm sorry I don't have all the scores and short memory. I brought in the drag in the dust, but I had a fine time.
What amazed me with all the swamp I did not have a skeeter draw blood. I'm usually a blood bank for them.

Kurt
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"Winston Churchill
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Distant Thunder
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Re: Harris Minnesota Regional ended today

Post by Distant Thunder »

I got an email today with the from MikeT with the results.

GRRC LONG RANGE MATCH AUG 2019

KLUSKENS JIM 511 9X
FARRINGER STEVE 448 4X
DANIELSON BRENT 445 3X
ODEAN LYNN 401 3X
THEISEN MIKE 389
SAATHOFF BOB 368 2X
FREIER GARY 368 1X
LOQUASTO ALAN 319 3X
ALTENBURG KURT 276 1X
MACE TOM 252
SCHAAF DICK 236
ROGERS LOWELL 231 1X
NEWELL DAVE 194 1X
MARTIN BOB 101 1X

As Kurt said this was a very relaxed and well run match, very enjoyable. The food provided by club members and other was very good. There was so much food served up Saturday for lunch that we continued to snack on it Sunday. Harris has a very nice range with a covered 1000 yard line. We were able to lay in the shade and shoot at our leisure, life doesn't get much better. The only rain we had came on Saturday night between midnight and 4 am. I don't know how the club arranged that, but I appreciated staying dry while shooting.

Both days had winds that gusted pretty darn good. The wind on Sunday really made things challenging with a gusty quartering head wind that would flip 180 degrees in a heart beat. Brent did a great job of keeping me mostly on paper and my paper patch bullets made that easy.

With plenty of practice time on Friday I was able to shoot Kurt's .44-77 Shiloh, a really nice rifle and a coooool cartridge with paper patch bullets. I also tried some of Brent's loads in my rifle just to help him out so he could see how they shot in an accurate rifle. What are friends for?

Then I shot some paper patch bullets a friend gave me and in spite of their very blunt shape they shot very well and required no change in sight setting and they held the X-ring at 1000 yards every bit as well as my ellipticals!

It's really nice to have a practice day on a new range, especially at 1000 yards. Usually all my testing of bullets, powder and loads is done during the match. This practice day alone was worth the trip.
Jim Kluskens
aka Distant Thunder
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desert deuce
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Re: Harris Minnesota Regional ended today

Post by desert deuce »

Sure, it is only about 1,730 miles one way or 27 hours driving time. About same as to Lodi, more or less.
It is on my bucket list.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
Aviator
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Re: Harris Minnesota Regional ended today

Post by Aviator »

Those Minnesotans did roll out the hospitality for us! Sure had a great time!

It was my first time there, as I started shooting black powder less than a year ago.
I expect it won't be my last time there!
Old-Win
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Re: Harris Minnesota Regional ended today

Post by Old-Win »

When Jim was shooting his practice rounds, most of the rest of us were finished and were sitting around watching him shoot. I was watching through the spotting scope. What was easy for him to do is to pull a bullet out of his loaded cases and try a different one which makes it really slick when you're shooting paper patch. Near the end, he was shooting his ellipticals and just keeping them in the center of the target. It's hard to believe how well he can shoot. He then had a bunch of bullets from another shooter friend which were like he said, quite blunt and not near the sophistication of the latest elliptical or money bullets that we see out there today. We were discussing how much he had to come up in elevation and then somebody said why don't you just shoot them and see what the difference is. He then went on to shoot three of these new bullets and I can't remember the sequence but I think he got two x's and a 10. He never made a sight adjustment. After all the years of BS on the net about which bullet shoots the best I'm really at a point where I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference. It comes down to rifle, load and knowing how to shoot it. Just my take on it.
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desert deuce
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Re: Harris Minnesota Regional ended today

Post by desert deuce »

Old-Win, you make the cogent observation of the centuries. He put the bullet in the case and shot 2 x's and a 10. In the final evaluation it was what the target said. Then there are some who would argue with results and do.

Had the pleasure of scoring for Jim in a Creedmoor Cup Match at Lodi. A high point in my competitive experience.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
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Distant Thunder
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Re: Harris Minnesota Regional ended today

Post by Distant Thunder »

Bob,

I'm still trying to figure out those last 6 shot I fired on Friday. I have been a strong believer in my version of an elliptical bullet because it has preformed so well for me over the past 10 years. Since 2009 when I first shot this design in LR competition most if not all of my wins and top 3 finishes have been with that bullet. I've experimented with other paper patch bullet designs in in Shiloh .45-90 and lately in my .45-70 Hepburn enough to know that this bullet shot better than the all rest in my rifles.

I think the real proof comes not so much in how well it shoots in mild conditions like we had at Harris late Friday afternoon, but how well it has shoot when things get really squirrelly. I wasn't overly surprised that the blunt, flat nosed bullets Ray gave me to try shot so well, but I was shocked that they shot inside the 10-ring with the same sight setting as my elliptical! I still am trying to understand this.

They look much longer than my elliptical only because the patch goes so far up the side of the bullet. They are actually about the same length at only a little over 1.400" long, which is the length I have found works best in my 18-twist .45s. I also believe the more blunt designs, whether PP or GG, are easier to get to shoot accurately. So I wasn't surprised that they grouped so well at 1000 yards, but I figured for sure the first one would be down low and in the dirt. When it came up inside the 10-ring I thought, "Well, that's odd!". Then when the next two also came up inside the 10-ring, well I still can't figure that out!

I have enough of these "muzzle loader" bullets left that I will be shooting them at Lodi next month for at least one relay, probably at 800 yards, just to see how they shoot. If they shoot as well there as they did at Harris, well lets just say it's going to be a long winter while I rethink everything I thought I knew about long-range PP bullets! Like DD said, "In the final evaluation it was what the target said.".

The time I spent at Harris on Friday afternoon experimenting with loads and bullets at 1000 yards was well worth the late night drive home, dodging all those deer running across the highway, drinking large cups of coffee to stay awake and mumbling to myself about bullets!

My thanks to you and all those at Harris for the effort you guys put in to make the match happen and for feeding everybody all that good food!
I hope to see you all again next year!
Jim Kluskens
aka Distant Thunder
Kurt
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Re: Harris Minnesota Regional ended today

Post by Kurt »

Jim.

I might be wrong, but what I find shooting the elliptical compared to a RN or RN FP type bullet the same length that hit the same point of impact is the bullet get heavier with the ogive farther up on the shank and I think this changes the recoil and slightly and longer barrel hang time letting the muzzle raise slightly before the bullet clears the muzzle.
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"Winston Churchill
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Distant Thunder
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Re: Harris Minnesota Regional ended today

Post by Distant Thunder »

Kurt,

That makes sense. I'll weigh those ML bullets tonight and what the difference is, my elliptical runs right about 531 grains.

That could explain the same elevation. What about the same windage. Yes, the winds were pretty mild, but still? And I know this was only 3 shots with each bullet, but I don't think more would show anything different. I was well centered up after shooting 20 with Brent's powder under my bullet even if I could just barely hang on to the paper with those loads. I'm going to have a hard time figuring all of this out. I'm glad there were several witnesses to what happened, it kind of makes me think I haven't lost it completely, at least not yet!

One thing about this BPTR stuff, it never ceases to be interesting.
Jim Kluskens
aka Distant Thunder
BFD
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Re: Harris Minnesota Regional ended today

Post by BFD »

I believe Kurt has the right idea. In addition, what those bullets lack in terms of drag, they make up for with additional mass. The two factors balance each other to some degree and it all work out in the end. My 480 gr Rockets shot to nearly the same point as the 537 gr ellipticals as well. Same powder charge.
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