USIMLT Match

This is where you can place your scores from the matches. It uses an excel spread sheet! If you send me your sheet of scores I can put it on the forum and provide a link where everyone can view it.

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desert deuce
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Re: USIMLT Match

Post by desert deuce » Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:54 pm

Humorous then and now was the choral response from the assembled shooters to the suggestion that rock holes and ricochets should count for score. The concept was mentioned only once and was met with serious derision in unison from those present. The question requalified to include only ricochets that struck the target and were clearly made by a bullet because it was accepted practice in some foreign countries. The interloper was unceremoniously reminded that this was America and we don't count ricochets or rock holes we just score it as one miss and move on. :lol: :lol:

End of discussion. :P
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!

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desert deuce
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Re: USIMLT Match

Post by desert deuce » Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:09 pm

In retrospect, we probably could have been a bit more diplomatic. :roll:

Probably kept subjects like " Do Overs " from being mentioned though. :mrgreen:
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Don McDowell
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Re: USIMLT Match

Post by Don McDowell » Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:55 pm

I liked the convertible sighters thing.
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Raymond Hanson
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Re: USIMLT Match

Post by Raymond Hanson » Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:58 pm

That was under the old rules. Though I do not know of any time when that was followed. The latest rule change would not allow any hit but front on by the bullet. Raymond

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Re: USIMLT Match

Post by VectorMan » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:07 am

From the ML scores it looks like Gullo, Hanson and Kerr have it figured out. I’d love 2 now the equipment and load details. Trying to get into the long range game in BPTR and ML. Have made a few decisions but would like more information on what the competitors are using. I’d think an equipment list would be critical in trying to get more information out there to get more new people involved. I know it would help my decision making and confidence level. The huge consecutive BP matches at Ben Avery were so hyped up leading up to the match but not much of a report on the results. Maybe a better write up is forthcoming on equipment, conditions, rifle failures and so on. I truly loved the photos stream Don posted on the Historic Shooting forum.
"keep adding powder til it bloodies your nose and blacks your eyes, then back it off bout 5 grains."

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Don McDowell
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Re: USIMLT Match

Post by Don McDowell » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:33 am

Kevin it looked to me like the bulk of the muzzleloaders were shooting Gibbs rifles. Steve Baldwin shot an under hammer. Those muzzleloader folks get quite the work out during the match.

Most of the cartridge guns were 45-90's with a couple of 45-100's thrown in for good measure. Aviator certainly proves over and over again the 45-70 can hold it's own. Can't say for certain but wise money would be that most shot a "money" bullet of some variety.
Sight picture and follow thru become about 10 times more important in the long range target rifle than in silhouette. Keeping in mind that at 1000 yards, the movement on the rear sight of 1 minute will change the poi approximately 10 inches, keeping a very steady gun in the sticks or on the wrist rest is vital. The extreme importance of having your own ground scope and being paired with a good spotter can't be over emphasized.
Your best bet will be to work up the best load you can find at the longest distance you have available to you and get to a bptr match, you'll learn more by the end of the first day than you can in a year of shooting at home or reading equipment lists.
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desert deuce
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Re: USIMLT Match

Post by desert deuce » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:13 am

Kevin, just such a report on the Muzzle Loading Match, and the others, at Phoenix is planned for BPCN Magazine.

As for this forum, might not want to listen to Muzzle Loader shooters that have to engage in "do overs" to win matches. :P Not to mention bouncing bullets into targets and claiming a scoring hit. :roll:

Not all gamers game at the matches. Some game on this forum and telephonically in between. :cry: Which taints competition greatly.

Caveat Emptor.
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Dennis Armistead
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Re: USIMLT Match

Post by Dennis Armistead » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:00 am

Kevin,
The most significate lesson that I have learned shooting out to 1000 is being able to read the wind and that takes time and experience by shooting, period. It doesn't hurt to have an accurate rifle/load either :D Trigger time and developing good shooting skills I think is more important than rifle type or caliber. I agree that an equipment list would be nice. Going to a long range match and talking with the other shooters is a great way of seeing what is used. I don't think there are any secret tips to shooting long range, just practice. If just getting into the long range game, I would suggest to any new shooter to get the best sights you can afford and a caliber in the .45 2.4 or .45 2.6 . The .45 2.1 can be very accurate and Steve has done a very good job at developing a long range load. As for me, I shoot the .45 2.6 and a "mini money" bullet of some type. Zack was my spotter and we had a good time. It was great seeing everyone again this year and look forward to shooting with them next year.
Dennis
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SFogler
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Re: USIMLT Match

Post by SFogler » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:11 pm

Life is short - get .45 cal rifle with a soule sight, load it with 70+ grains, top it with a money bullet and go do it. Every time I prepare for a match I think it's like the bumble bee that the engineers say can't fly but it does - nobody can lay in the dirt with iron sights and hit a target at 1000 yards with a BP rifle. I get a little worried that I can't do it even though I have in the past. Once I'm actually firing on the 1000 line it's all good and I'm saying to my spotter "Hey that moved me form a ten to a nine; I didn't need that half minute left!" The spotters are always willing to help you with responses like, "Well, if you weren't dyslexic and could move the sight in the correct direction you would have gotten an X." * Point is, you have to shoot at a match and you'll realize that yes you really can hit the target and you'll have plenty of good shooters to help you. No reason to stay at home.

*Actual conversation between Fogman shooting and Aviatior spotting.

Raymond Hanson
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Re: USIMLT Match

Post by Raymond Hanson » Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:04 am

Some competitors have made light of rules that they are not familiar with. These rules being different from what they are used to therefore giving the competitors some sort of advantage that is somehow unfair. One is the "do overs" at Oak Ridge. I also laughed and rolled my eyes at that rule. But in reality it is a nuance in a game not unlike a wild card in a poker game. At Oak Ridge you could opt to start over in your scoring shots but you did not get any more time and you could not keep your first score. While I had limited experience at Oak Ridge I am not aware of any miracle scores coming out of "do overs". It was not a fix for poor shooting just a nuance to the game. Convertible sighters are similar. Those that think it is some sort of crutch have not shot in a convertible sighter match much. The decision to take X's and Ten's is easy. But deciding to take a 6 or some seven's because the conditions may change and they could look a lot better than a couple misses in the end of your string is the challenge. Convertible sighters is not a crutch it is a nuance. In Canada at their Nationals at most distances they have two back to back relays where you keep the better of the two scores. You only have to shoot one relay but you can try for the second one if you prefer. Keeping the highest score. Seldom is the second score higher than the first. Another nuance like a wild card or spinner in poker. The point is these are all fairly administered to all the competitors. We should not make fun of these nuances until we have tried them and understand them. Even the rule regarding ricochets. How many times have we heard people call up from the pits claiming someones bullet is not going through the target squarely. Should the decision to call that an on target hit be left solely to the person pulling the target? In most International competitions the host country supplies the target pullers. Leaving them the option of deciding whose bullet was a hit and whose was a ricochet can make a hell of a difference in which country gets a win. No one writing that rule intended to allow ricochets to be proper hits. It only sounds stupid if you do not think through the reasons for the rule in the first place. Beware of assuming the matches run differently are somehow less competitive than our standard NRA like format. Raymond Hanson

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Don McDowell
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Re: USIMLT Match

Post by Don McDowell » Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:13 am

Ray I truly did like the convertible sighters thing. Especially in those rapidly changing conditions we shot in at Phoenix. It also proved to be a good thing for those of us that may of been a bit ammunition count challenged for shooting the entire 9 days.
I was so thankful for the time that Margo and Ed Decker spent explaining exactly how it worked.
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Raymond Hanson
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Re: USIMLT Match

Post by Raymond Hanson » Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:36 am

Thanks Don I too like convertible sighters. A further thought on my previous note in regards to how different matches are run consider this. We are laughed at for our use of cross sticks and individual shooters having a coach. Internationally they do not use cross sticks and coaching is only allowed in team events. Also your sighters are limited. They do not think very highly of our unlimited sighters! The old Kris Kristoffersen song was right "Every body has got to have someone to look down on" Raymond Hanson

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Re: USIMLT Match

Post by Raymond Hanson » Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:40 am

Don IF you would like to have "convertible sighters" adopted by all means mention it to Greg Burri and or Bill L. With these matches not being under the NRA or the NMLRA then the rules can be what the match director and the shooters prefer. Raymond Hanson

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Don McDowell
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Re: USIMLT Match

Post by Don McDowell » Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:52 am

Yessir couldn't agree more.
However I do think the way that both disciplines were blended at the USIMLT/AZWINS triple crown match was a great thing, and would like to see more of that.It can only be a positive thing for blackpowder shooting in general.
On the sighters thing I seldom take more than 4 or 5 for target rifle. I really like the "cup" style matches, 3 sighters on paper, and you're into score, no coaching. The more like the original Creedmoor match rules the better.
I actually like shooting off a wrist rest better than cross sticks, and wouldn't balk a moment at shooting a match unsupported.
Looking forward to seeing how things develop for next years shootlpalooza at the Ben Avery. Have been in multiple conversations with Greg and you guys are doing a bang up job of getting things organized for next year, and it's great that next year is already being planned out.
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Raymond Hanson
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Re: USIMLT Match

Post by Raymond Hanson » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:25 pm

This is in response to Brent's post about my denigrating Oak Ridge. I do not get on this site very often. But I see that by mentioning that the rules were for many years at Oak Ridge I am denigrating. How is it that when someone states what the rules were they are denigrating. Your doing something embarrassing and me telling the world about it is not denigrating. I shot at Oak Ridge before you were involved in this sport at least I had never heard of you in any context good or bad. They did do do overs and were proud of it at Oak Ridge. Much like the NMLRA pulled out of Phoenix. They also deemed it denigrating to remind people of the truth! Raymond Hanson

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