Gas Sealing life of 1863

[NMLRA Past Pres.]

Hello:

My two 1874 Shiloh's are as fine as any rifles I've ever owned. I couldn't be happier with them.

I'd like to get an 1863 for loose powder or paper cartridge use, but am concerned that the design has some serious issues with gas sealing. I've got a lot of BP cartridge and ML experience and don't have trouble keeping guns in perfect shape so if the 1863 will maintain a good gas seal with proper use and care, I'm going for one because the 1863 seems to have the best practical ballistics vs. some of the others that have relatively anemic cartridges that amount to little more than handgun loads in rifles.

Please give me your first-hand experiences and advice about the design and how well and for how long the breech mechanism REALLY provides a decent gas seal.

Thanks,

Kevin Tinny

[snapcap14]

read thru this fourm under shooting new carbine. my posts and daved lee's post.
also go tto the NSSA board.
there is no wear problem w/ the gas check if you A O-ring modification there are to ways to do it modify the back of the plate the other is to have the seeve puller and have a 2 pcs machines out of stainless one half will be machine w/ a male end to accept an o-ring over it and the breech half will be machind w female end for the male to slip into. I like this method better.
but the gas check method is easyer and a lot cheeper to do and any machinest can do it for you..
If you find daves post i think he posted a picture of the mod.
If not he emailed it to me and If I still have it can fowared it to you.
If I was ordering a shiloh I would contack Kirk and see if they can't do it for you.
If you do not get a tight seal the gas check plate will erode over time and need to be replaced. you will also find that the breach will be hard to open even after just a few shots.
the original sharps had a sliding breach sleeve and worked well as long as they were pulled and cleaned on a regular bases.
I beleive a few of the repro mfg had them for awhile but they never worked that well from what i have read . I HAVE NO FIRST HAND EXP. w/ it.

[Rich Siegel]

Kevin,

When I first started skirmishing with the N-SSA, I shot a friends Farmingdale Shiloh that had been used in matches for at least 15 or more years. The gas seal had issues. After 10 to 15 rounds, you would need to pour cleaning solution into the breech to keep it operating. But, that was an old Shiloh, not a new one that Kirk now makes. Thus, I can't speak for the new, unmodified guns.

Shiloh has excellent customer relations/warranty respect and I believe Kirk has said in past posts that if the gas seal does leak, he will install a new one at no cost. My suggestion would be get an original Shiloh, shoot if for many years and if the seal does start to leak, have a new one put in or do the "O" ring modification at that time. I think this would be a great experiment to see just how many rounds can be fired before the seal startd to leak.

Rich

[Kurt]

I have a few long sleeved shirts with holes burned in the left sleeve shooting a 63

[Todd Birch]

Kevin

I own three Shiloh '63s, two Farmingdale (Military Rifle and carbine, both in .50) and a current '63 Sporter in .54.

In my opinion, the .50 is the way to go. Less lead-less powder-less recoil. Downloading a .54 just doesn't compute for me. The chamber of my '63 Sporter will eat 100+ grs. of powder. Not fun after a while .....

The .50s are pussycats and easy to load for. You can duplicate original looking rounds by rolling a lubed bullet with a 60 gr .54 calibre Pyrodex pellet. They got away from the shear type during the CW by making chamber length rounds of compressed BP.

All of them are surprisingly accurate to 200 yds considering the military sights, and the '63 is worthy of a good tang sight. If I keep it, I may do this.

As for the gas leakeage and fouling, it is the nature of the beast. The Brits rejected the earlier slant breech '55 for that reason. Too many expensive uniform cuffs were being singed! But - the troops loved them and they served with several regiments in India.
They also tested the vertical breech '59 and it passed all tests well, but Robbins & Lawrence couldn't meet the delivery terms of the contract, so a decision was made in favour of a Brit design, and that forced Robbins & Lawrence into bankruptcy.

Get a copy of the current 'Rifle' magazine for an article on shooting the '63 carbine (and other designs) and a newly released book by Peter Schiffers entitled 'Civil War Carbines - Myth vs Reality'. He test 12 original designs, including the 'Sharps '63 out to 220 yards.

There is a lot of info on shooting '63s on this site. All of it learned through experience.

[Jim Mulligan]

I have shot my 1863 Carbine (new 2003 un-modified) for five years in N-SSA matches and the plate is still sealing fine. I use 45g of 2F because a friend told me it would be less wear on the gas check plate. I think one could use 3F if they wanted and it would result in no problem.

[klw]

I have shot my 1863 Carbine (new 2003 un-modified) for five years in N-SSA matches and the plate is still sealing fine. I use 45g of 2F because a friend told me it would be less wear on the gas check plate. I think one could use 3F if they wanted and it would result in no problem.

Any idea how many rounds you have put through it?

[bakerj]

I am new to BP shooting and recently bought a Pedersoli 1859 'Sharps' (45 cal). I am sure this is much less rifle than the Shiloh but sounds like they all have some of the same Sharps percussion issues. After 7 rounds I can barely operate the breech block (have to disassemble and clean it). Tried the civil war fix of spitting on it but that didn't work! Has anyone tried Pyrodex or triple seven- I have never tried these in any BP gun but if they burn cleaner maybe I could get to 8 or 9 rounds before cleaning the breech block. How in original Gov't tests the Sharps made 40 rounds in 2+ minutes I don't understand- those rifles must have been much better designed than my replica.

[snapcap14]

The ansewer is the o-ring modification
search is fourm and you will find posts on it.

[1stregtengr]

I shoot a 63 shiloh rifle in NSSA competition. I use Swiss powder( had been using 3f and now use 1 1/2) and do not clean, remove or spray the breech block during the competition which is usually between 18-22 rounds. I do grease the breechblock rails with a liberal application of lubriplate. I do not believe you can do the O ring deal on a shiloh because they do not have a floating, removable chamber sleeve as the imports do. If you are not shooting a shiloh the O ring is the way to go

[Jim Mulligan]

[quote]Jim Mulligan wrote:
I have shot my 1863 Carbine (new 2003 un-modified) for five years in N-SSA matches and the plate is still sealing fine. I use 45g of 2F because a friend told me it would be less wear on the gas check plate. I think one could use 3F if they wanted and it would result in no problem.


Any idea how many rounds you have put through it?[/quote]

I have not been here in a while. I guess at this point 3000 rounds or so through the carbine without the first problem. I love the gun.

[snapcap14]

I shoot a 63 shiloh rifle in NSSA competition. I use Swiss powder( had been using 3f and now use 1 1/2) and do not clean, remove or spray the breech block during the competition which is usually between 18-22 rounds. I do grease the breechblock rails with a liberal application of lubriplate. I do not believe you can do the O ring deal on a shiloh because they do not have a floating, removable chamber sleeve as the imports do. If you are not shooting a shiloh the O ring is the way to go

I bought my shiloh used it has the gas check O-ring mod done to it
Kick say when it wears out he will refit a proper one to it.
My armi sport has a fixed sleeve [got it new so I know it was fixed] Bobby hoyt pulled or how ever he got it out. and built a 2 pc w/ the O-ring mod. fo me.
I use high temp anti-seize on both mine. never a problem thru a whole carbine match and some times have gone full time in an event. d#m clay board.
I hate hanging clays and no-one misses tiles.

[snapcap14]

I shoot a 63 shiloh rifle in NSSA competition. I use Swiss powder( had been using 3f and now use 1 1/2) and do not clean, remove or spray the breech block during the competition which is usually between 18-22 rounds. I do grease the breechblock rails with a liberal application of lubriplate. I do not believe you can do the O ring deal on a shiloh because they do not have a floating, removable chamber sleeve as the imports do. If you are not shooting a shiloh the O ring is the way to go

why 1 1/2 instead of 2ffg?

[1stregtengr]

been using swiss in my Shiloh for a couple of years, did some accuracy testing for 50, 100 & 200 yds and had the best results with Swiss over Goex FFg & FFFg, was going to try some express this year but haven't gotten around to it. also the action never tightens up in my course of fire using swiss.

[snapcap14]

I started using swiss 3 years ago but use 3fffg swiss in the musket
and 2ffg swiss in the sharps. But was wondering why you went to 1 1/2 swiss in lue of 2ffg swiss.