1861 New Model Carbine

Support for the 1863 shooter. Discussions of powders, loads, bullets, etc.
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61carbine
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:15 pm

1861 New Model Carbine

Post by 61carbine »

Hello everyone, I've just joined and this is my first post. I have an original 1861 New Model Carbine nearing completion of refurbishing. I had never seen one of these weapons up close until a few months ago. What a remarkable piece of technology! It is to weaponry what the Brooklyn Bridge is to transportation. As strong today as when they were built.

I intend to shoot this rifle and was wondering:

1. How important is it to have the movable chamber sleeve functioning? This one is seized and probably has been for the last hundred or more years. However, the gas check plate in the breech block is free to move, plus the fit between it and the sleeve is good enough to cleanly cut paper. There is only very mild pitting on the face of the check plate and the face of sleeve is unmarred. The action is very tight and smooth.

I hesitate to remove the barrel to get it out and clean it as I understand these things are prone to seizing anyway. I doubt the soldiers worried about this component.

2. This model is a .52 caliber and I'd like some recommendations on bullet diameter and sources to buy them. I was planning to get the BA0210 Odd Bullets - Sharps .52 from Dixie Gunworks. I plan to make 70-80 gr. paper charges and load the bullets separately.

I don't plan put hundreds of rounds thru this gun. It's just something to enjoy from time to time.

Any input is most welcome! -- 61Carbine

P.S. I bought a replacement nipple from VTI but found in testing that not enough flame was coming through vent to ignite a small test charge. I cleaned out the original nipple and discovered its hole is much larger than the new version. I put it back on and everything works fine now.
HvyMtl
Posts: 256
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Location: Soviet state of New Jersey

Post by HvyMtl »

Welcome to the forum,

As long as the gas plate moves you shouldn't have a problem with shooting it. The Shiloh sleeves don't move, but the Pedersoli's do at least on the older models.

Did you check the bore size on your own or does it say 52 cal. on it. I always put a swab of lube through the barrel before shooting it the first time after it's been cleaned or swabbed to clean the fouling.

Most of us Don't use the paper cutting ability anymore, we usually just make the paper cartridge to the right length so it doesn't stick out. I just drop in the bullet, followed by the powder. I use a Lyman mini for the Ped. and a Pedersoli bullet for the Shiloh.

Good luck with it

Ken

P.S. When I take either of them to the range I usually only shoot about 20-25 rounds, but they are both a lot of fun to shoot.
61carbine
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:15 pm

New Model 1863

Post by 61carbine »

.52 caliber is stamped on the barrel. I also stand corrected on the model -- it's a New Model 1863, not '61. I don't believe there is such a thing.

I was planning to swab the barrel with Bore Butter before firing and also dabbing some around the bullet.

I was also planning to make the paper charges as you describe as it seems it's a tidy way to do things. I mentioned the paper cutting to describe how tightly things fit.

Thanks for your help.
Rich Siegel
Posts: 610
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2002 7:53 am
Location: Maine

Post by Rich Siegel »

I wasn't aware that an original Sharps had a moveable barrel sleeve. Is this an original or an Italian copy?

Rich
Parley Baer
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Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2002 4:25 pm
Location: Californina

Post by Parley Baer »

I know when they converted some to the 50-70 cartridge they sleeved the chamber. I believe that was done to those that had a good barrel. Those that had a bad barrel got the 3 groove liner.
SHILOH 4
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61carbine
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:15 pm

1863 carbine

Post by 61carbine »

It's an original made around 1863. Here's a link -- scroll down to "cleaning".

http://www.awod.com/cwchas/klnshps.html
Rich Siegel wrote:I wasn't aware that an original Sharps had a moveable barrel sleeve. Is this an original or an Italian copy?

Rich
Parley Baer
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2002 4:25 pm
Location: Californina

Post by Parley Baer »

"have a sealing sleeve in the breech, which should be removed to be cleaned and oiled separately."

OK. This is out of my league seeing as I have never messed with one but I would think as long as it is making a good seal with the breech block you should be ok. If it did not I would think you would notice the gas escaping.
SHILOH 4
I'am that man, Matt Dillon, United States Marshall, the first man they look for and the last they want to meet.
61carbine
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Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:15 pm

Post by 61carbine »

That's the premise I'm going to go on. I'll find out soon enough how well it seals when fired. I was mostly concerned about safety issues I may have been unaware of, not to mention damaging the gun.

If it does leak, I'll want to remove it and get it functioning again. One of the consequences of leakage is "gas cutting" where the escaping gases act as a blowtorch on nearby surfaces,


Parley Baer wrote:"have a sealing sleeve in the breech, which should be removed to be cleaned and oiled separately."

OK. This is out of my league seeing as I have never messed with one but I would think as long as it is making a good seal with the breech block you should be ok. If it did not I would think you would notice the gas escaping.
NMLRA Past Pres.
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Post by NMLRA Past Pres. »

Got me to wondering:

Is there any truth in the old story that paper ctg. Sharps could create a bit of powder accumulation during cutoff that would lead to a secondary ignition in the forearm area?

Thanks,

Kevin Tinny
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61carbine
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:15 pm

1863 carbine

Post by 61carbine »

Yes, that's a risk, but less so if your paper charge is minimally cut off when closing the breech. A few shooters report they make the charge such that it isn't cut at all.

Bear in mind I've never shot one of these before, so I only know what I've read. With black powder shooting in general though, neatness counts as loose powder can accumulate in nooks and crannies leading to a secondary explosion in many guns.

If you go the "comments" section of this link, it's described there.

http://www.awod.com/cwchas/klnshps.html

NMLRA Past Pres. wrote:Got me to wondering:

Is there any truth in the old story that paper ctg. Sharps could create a bit of powder accumulation during cutoff that would lead to a secondary ignition in the forearm area?

Thanks,

Kevin Tinny
Rich Siegel
Posts: 610
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2002 7:53 am
Location: Maine

Post by Rich Siegel »

With a proper length paper cartridge, the cartridge just fits into the chamber and is not cut off by the breech gas seal coming up when the breech is closed. No powder is spilled. The flame from the percussion cap goes right through the light weight paper cap at the end of the paper cartridge.

Rich
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