shot the 1863 .38 caliber sporter

Bill Goodman · Post by **Bill Goodman** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:43 am

I just shot the .38 caliber 1863 sporter in prep. for an article in the Black Powder Cartridge News. I wrote about this rifle a while back. Using a standard .38-55 Lyman bullet weighing 252 grains 1/30 I shot 5 shot groups under 1.5 MOA using breech seating and loose powder- Swiss 11/2F and 2F. But, I noticed groups opened when I raised the muzzle after loading and the powder moved back into the block. When I loaded with the muzzle down and kept it down until I put the rifle in the rest, groups shrank. For hunting it doesn't matter, but for targets it seems to, at least in this particular rifle. Next I'll test the .50 sporter in the same way and see how that does. I've shot these two rifles very very little. Input from others on this welcome!

MissedAgain · Post by **MissedAgain** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:36 am

In loading cartridges, I hear and read that it is dangerous to leave any air space between the powder and the bullet. I a percussion Sharps we are doing pretty much that. When using Charlie's tubes, the powder charge is contained, but there is a fairly large open space behind it. If you load loose powder it can flow into the space in the breach block and leave a fairly large gap. Why isn't this dangerous?

Bill Goodman · Post by **Bill Goodman** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:57 am

My understanding is that air space- lots of air space, is dangerous with smokeless powder, not BP. I think this is more myth than anything else with regard to black powder. That doesn't mean you can seat a ball half way down the barrel of a muzzle loader and touch it off without problems, but a little air space doesn't seem to cause difficulties. The .38 I shot the other day actually liked some air space. A full chamber of about 65 grs. shot larger groups than 45, 50 and 55 grains. Fast ignition with all loads, no gas leaking, a joy to shoot!

Rich Siegel · Post by **Rich Siegel** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:46 am

Bill,

Another experiment you could try is a paper cartridge, nitrated or not, glued to the back of the bullet and filled with powder. Or, you could just make a paper tube, fill it with powder, and place it into the barrel after you breech seat the bullet. Both methods will keep the powder in place. Unlike the cardboard tubes, if you make the paper tube slightly longer then the chamber, you can push the paper cartridge in and compress the powder slightly. As you know, GOEX likes to be compressed.

What range are you getting the 1 1/2 MOA groups?

Good shooting.

Rich

Bill Goodman · Post by **Bill Goodman** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:04 am

Rich, good suggestions. This is a whole new field for Sharps shooters. My groups are all five shot at 100 yards, MVA 130 vernier and #111 globe. Hopefully the article in Black Powder Cartridge News will light a fire under this new/very old subject. Next I'll test a .50 Sporter that I've only shot once before (and then took a mule deer at 120 yards). Groups with that went under 1.5 MOA at 100 yards too. I'll post the results when I fire this one hopefully next week. Pretty exciting stuff!

Rich Siegel · Post by **Rich Siegel** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:23 am

Bill,

I should wait to read your article but am very interested to hear about your experiences. Do you have any idea how much powder your 38 and your 50 would take, filling up the chamber without a paper cartridge? My Shiloh military carbine holds just 50 grains of FFG GOEX using a paper cartridge and a 490 grain christmastree ringtail bullet. But my Shiloh Robinson will only hold about 40 grains of powder with the same bullet and a paper cartridge.

I'm sorry that Shiloh only makes, on a normal bases, the '63 sporter in 50 and 54 cal. They did make the gun in 45 but dropped that caliber. I believe the original Sharps '63 sporting guns (if any were really made) were in calibers from 44 to 54. To my taste, the 50 & 54 just use too much powder and lead for ranges they were designed to shoot at.

Rich

Bill Goodman · Post by **Bill Goodman** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:21 am

Rich, This is all going to be in the article, but the chamberof the .38 with the Lyman bulet breech seated holds between 65 - 70 grs. bulk measured from a typical brass muzzle loading type powder measure. This means I can load it to equal .38-55 to .38-56 to even .38-72 cartridges. The .50 holds about 100 grs behind any ofthe standard Lyman/RCBS .450 to 550 grain slugs breech seated.
There were very few 1859/63 sporters made because of the Civil War, but lots of slant breech sporters Mod. 1852 and 1853 were made in .36, .44 and .50 cal. From reports at the time they were very well liked and were effective at long range field conditions.

Rich Siegel · Post by **Rich Siegel** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:56 pm

Bill,

A couple questions on your 38 caliber rifle;

1, is it a heavy weight barrel or standard weight?

2, is the rifle a straight or pistol grip model?

3, did you use store bought bullets or cast by you?

Thanks,

Rich

Bill Goodman · Post by **Bill Goodman** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:26 pm

Rich, I cast my own bullets 1 to 30 (tin/lead). This rifle has a 26" standard oct. barrel and is a Saddle Rifle with some interesting features. If you go to Shooter to Shooter and go back 11 pages to March 21 you'll see photos of this rifle and the .50 also.

Rich Siegel · Post by **Rich Siegel** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:02 am

Thanks Bill

I read the message when you originally posted it but forgot you had photo's. I like the saddle ring on the lower tang!

Rich