Sighting in and ammo

[61carbine]

Does anyone know the distance the original 1863 Carbines were sighted for?

Mine is original and I'm shooting 70gr Goex ffg behind a 405 grain bullet from Dixie Gun Works. The chamber will hold 90-plus grains of powder, so I put cornmeal in to fill up the space.

What I find is that with a 100 yard target and the ladder sight folded down, it shoots 10 or more inches high. Could be my middle age eyes, so I'm wondering if it's my ammo, me or something else.

On another note, I've been loading the bullet and paper charge separately. I'd like to roll some as a complete cartridge, but I'm having a hard time getting the paper to stick to the lubed bullet. How do y'all get around that?

Thanks!

[Todd Birch]

I don't think that Seller's book mentions range with any Sharps.

Peter Schiffer's book "Civil War Carbines - Myth vs. Reality" reports on his shooting all Civil War carbines at distances of 55-110-220 yards (the equivalent of European metres) but he doesn't mention sight settings.

My Shiloh .50 '63 carbine hits 10" high at 50 yds. Groups well, but that's a little more than I can handle for most applications.

I'm going to install a higher front sight using a half nickel and filing it to shape.

In the era, I believe that many guns were so sighted. It gave the illusion of greater range and taught the shooter to 'hold centre' in order to hit a man in the chest.

My prefered zero is to hit 4" high at 50 yards for paper or hunting.

[61carbine]

Seems I read somewhere they were sighted close-in for 200 yards, but that could be a faulty memory. Seems consistent with ours shooting high at 50 and 100 yards.

[Rich Siegel]

I had an original '63 that was converted to 50/70 and it shot on at 200 with the ladder sight down. I would think this is close to what an unaltered 54 cal would shoot like.

By the way, if you see Bill Goodman's post a couple of weeks ago, he uses powder charges that do not fill the chamber and he does not use a filler. The filler might migrate back into the powder charge when the gun is elevated. I tried a loose powder charge in my carbine that does not fill the chamber. I kept the muzzle pointed down until I brought the gun up to fire and, like Bill said, had no problems.

Rich

[61carbine]

Thanks Rich, that sounds about right.

And thanks for the reference to Bill's post. My powder and filler are tightly contained in a paper cartridge, so migration of the two isn't a problem. I use the filler so the cartridge is just long enough to snip off a bit of paper when closing the breech. I'll have to experiment with and without the filler.

I shoot SASS (cowboy action shooting) and am going to an event next month that has what's called a "Quigley" side match. The object is to hit a target 100 yards away as quickly as possible with six shots, using a single shot rifle. Since I'll be competing with metallic cartridge Sharps and Springfield Trap Doors, I'll have to use complete paper cartridges. No time for separate components. Should be fun.

BTW, I found a solution to getting the paper to stick to the bullet. Glue the paper to the bullet first, placing the edge of the paper just over the bottom lube groove. Fill with powder and wrap the paper so the cartridge is easier to handle. Then press the lube into the grooves which also seals the edge of the paper into the bottom groove. Makes a nice smooth cartridge.

[Todd Birch]

The more I read about what you .54 '63 shooters go through, the more I appreciate my .50 '63s.

The chambers hold a reasonable 55-60 grains and I get to use Lyman 515141 425 gr bullets sized .512. Onion skin paper adheres to the SPG lube just fine, especially if I use 60 gr Pyrodex pellets for fuel and roll them with the bullets.

[61carbine]

Hi again. Just curious as to why you use Pyrodex. Is it because the pellets make loading easier? Do you get better performance than with black powder?

Perhaps it's just me, but Pyrodex has all of the disadvantages as black powder (corrosive and needs lube) and none of the fun (flame). Yeah, it's a little cheaper, but we don't use that much. And flame isn't always good either, depending on where you're shooting.

Not being critical in any way, just curious how/why you use it. I use Goex with BPlubed bullets in the Sharps and other guns. When I don't feel like messing with BP lubes, I use 777 because it makes its own.

Having said that, Pyrodex measures the same as BP, but one needs to use a little less 777 because it's 15 percent hotter on average than BP.

[Todd Birch]

'61 carbine

I have some good references to compressed powder charges in Civil War ammo. Some even used powder charges with three progressive burning rates! That was too complicated and didn't catch on.

So, being the bright lad that I am, I called Pyrodex and asked them to measure the diameter of a .54 cal 60 gr pellet. They complied and asked me why I wanted to know. I told them and asked if there was any ballistic reason why I shouldn't do this.

They gave me the green light and I tried it with success. No spilled powder, absolute accuracy in weight of charge shot after shot, 100% ignition (due to the smear of BP on the base and the hole in through the pellet), good handling characteristics, I get slightly less than chamber length rounds, etc. What's not to like?

Having said that, I admit to preferring BP overall. I find the fouling from the Pyro pellets on the dry side. You have to ensure that the paper doesn't fully cover the base which is easily achieved by cutting the paper accordingly.

Besides, it irritates the hell out of some of the curmudgerns on this forum just to hear the word "Pyrodex" - they grow horns!