1863 Questions.........

Support for the 1863 shooter. Discussions of powders, loads, bullets, etc.
Todd Birch
Posts: 2121
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:01 pm
Location: Somewhere in the Cariboo ....

'59 vs '63

Post by Todd Birch » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:38 am

Terry

According to Seller's book, the '63 differs from the '59 in minor respects - sights, etc. Unless you're a Farby historical re-enactor (Berdan 'Sharpshooter?), you're picking fly shit out of pepper.
I own three '63s (one civilian, two military) and I am an historical re-enactor. I have never been challenged by anyone other than by one genious who commented - "Those don't look very old." I responded - "Why would they? They're fresh out of stores. If you want 'old', go to a museum."
When one shoots an historical arm of any kind, part of the package is dealing with their peculuarities and idiosyncrasies. In the case of the '59s and '63s, we are dealing with technology that began in the 1850s. Part of their charm is making them work and shoot well.
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"

tljack
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:01 pm
Location: Helena Montana

Post by tljack » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:52 pm

Todd,

Thanks for taking time to respond. I apparently did not communicate my informational needs very well. I do no want to sell the Armi 1859. I mearly mentioned it as a tag line. I want to glean some of the vast knowledge of those on this forum about how to make sure I keep the sliding breece clean and free in the future.

As for an original Sharps, I am in the process of buying an original 1852 slant breech carbine. I am hoping that in time I can develop a collection of original Sharps rifles as well as good shooting reproductions. My next will be a Shilo 1893. I will be placing an order right after the first of the year.

BTW, the owner of the gun I am negotiating with has over a dozen original Sharps rifles including an authentic Berdan!

Terry

Todd Birch
Posts: 2121
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:01 pm
Location: Somewhere in the Cariboo ....

Slant breech

Post by Todd Birch » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:28 pm

Terry

Thanks for not taking offence at my candour.

A Slant Breech, you say ...... Bill Goodman is your man on that topic.
If you have Seller's book and other references, you know that the slant breech Sharps carbine came close to being adopted by the British Army, the first American arm to be so considered. Also the first arm with a two piece stock to be considered.

Five cavalry regiments went of to India armed with them and they saw service in putting down the Mutiny. I'm not sure if these were in the British .577 bore or not.
First thing they did was to remove the priming mechanisms as they were unreliable and the troops were used to using muskets caps. I have a Farmingdale .50 '63 carbine that doesn't have the receiver hump and I refer to it as my 'British model.'
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"

tljack
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:01 pm
Location: Helena Montana

Post by tljack » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:30 pm

Todd,

No offence taken of course.

I am not aware of any 1852 Sharps being sold to the British.

I do have Frank Sellers book. I can not find any info about the British purchasing 1852's. On page 61 it does say that there was a contract for 1855's. 3,000 carbines with 18" barrels and a contract for 3,000 carbines with 21" barrels.

According to Winston O. Smith, in his book "The Sharps Rifle, It's History, Developement and Operation" (pg 11) He says that 6,000 carbines were made for the British but not delivered until 1857.

Martin Rywell's book, "Sharps Rifle, The Gun That Shaped American Destiny" (pg 24) says that 6,000 Sharps carbines were manufactured for the British.

The guns whether new or old are very interesting and fun to own.

Terry

tljack
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:01 pm
Location: Helena Montana

Post by tljack » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:34 pm

Todd,

I forgot to mention to you my thoughts about people asking why your guns looks new when you are portraying a historical character. I really doubt that a 1863 Sharps being used in that year looked old. Most likely it was it's owners pride and joy, extremely well cared for and showed like that. pristine!

:lol:

KL
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:26 pm

1863

Post by KL » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:02 am

Unless it was dragged through Chancellorsville, Lookout Mountain, Chattanooga, Brandy Station, Gettysburg, Chicamauga, . . . .

Todd Birch
Posts: 2121
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:01 pm
Location: Somewhere in the Cariboo ....

slant breech

Post by Todd Birch » Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:47 pm

Terry

Didn't say the Brits bought '52s. I said "slant breech" models.

It was the poor gas seal that doomed them from beig adopted. The troops loved 'em but too many fancy uniform cuffs were being singed.

The later '59 (vertical breech) was approved, but by then other designs(Brit) had been approved for adoption.
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"

tljack
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:01 pm
Location: Helena Montana

Post by tljack » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:20 pm

Todd,

Just like everything else it seems the "big frogs" always get in the way.
I would love to own one of those old original pieces in shooting condition. I think I will have to settle for a Shilo 1863 ( really not punishment! ) I love my 1874 Montana Rough Rider. If an 1863 is as much fun (maybe more) I can't wait.

Terry

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Free_Stater
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Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:50 pm
Location: Brooklyn, Mississippi

Post by Free_Stater » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:43 pm

An 1863 is fun, but it's a different kind of fun. Making the cartridges is hard work, but it's also enjoyable. What's really FUN is showing up at a public range during a shooters' event and having folks lined up to shoot your Sharps.

Now THAT is fun!
When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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