Charlie Hahn's breech seal upgrades?

[Naphtali]

I just ordered an 1863 Sporting Rifle. For an 1863 I already own I obtained two lengths of Mr. Hahn's cartridge tubes. Accompanying these tubes - I bought them from another Sharps user rather than from Mr. Hahn - was information about two breech seal "upgrades" available from him. The one Mr. Hahn identifies in his literature as significantly more effective permanently alters the breech block.

1. Compared with the action I will be receiving on my new rifle, is Mr. Hahn's better gas seal upgrade a significant improvement at sealing the breech from escaping gas? My rifle is intended to be a hunting rifle. I have fantasy hunts to fulfill before MCTD devours me. So loads will be much closer to my bulleted loads in my Kodiak Safari muzzleloading double rifles than to a Civil War-era combat load.

2. A related question that is probably less important: Will Mr. Hahn's seal maintain its integrity, more or less, as long as Shiloh's?

3. I believe I read a query in this forum where Mr. Bryan agreed to make a second or replacement breech block assembly available to a Shiloh Sharps 1863 owner who intended to have done the breech seal upgrade about which I ask. Were I to arrange for the gas seal upgrade, would obtaining a [second] breech block assembly to be able to undo Mr. Hahn's work be a good idea?

4. If there are questions I should have asked, but did not, please respond as though I asked.

[Rich Siegel]

Naphtali,

If your new rifle is a Shiloh, I would not have the breech modified. I own a Shiloh 1863 carbine with the "O" ring conversion and Beryllium gas seal that I have shot in N-SSA competition for over 10 years. Works very well and easy to clean. I also have a Shiloh 1862 Robinson carbine with the standard breech block that also shoots very well without undo fouling. It's harder to get the gas seal out of the breech block for cleaning. Many older Shiloh's, made in new York, developed gas cutting on the gas seal after years of shooting. They do still fall under the Shiloh warrenty and can be returned for a new gas seal. I think the new Shiloh's use a better grade of steel for the gas seal and will not have that problem but again, they are covered under warrenty. If you modify the breech block, you loose the warrenty. So I would say, DON'T DO IT!

Rich

[Naphtali]

Naphtali,

If your new rifle is a Shiloh, I would not have the breech modified. I own a Shiloh 1863 carbine with the "O" ring conversion and Beryllium gas seal that I have shot in N-SSA competition for over 10 years. Works very well and easy to clean. I also have a Shiloh 1862 Robinson carbine with the standard breech block that also shoots very well without undo fouling. It's harder to get the gas seal out of the breech block for cleaning. Many older Shiloh's, made in new York, developed gas cutting on the gas seal after years of shooting. They do still fall under the Shiloh warrenty and can be returned for a new gas seal. I think the new Shiloh's use a better grade of steel for the gas seal and will not have that problem but again, they are covered under warrenty. If you modify the breech block, you loose the warrenty. So I would say, DON'T DO IT!

Rich

Rich:

Many thanks for your reply. For me, the single most important point in your reply is: "If you modify the breech block, you loose the warrenty. So I would say, DON'T DO IT!"

My follow-up question is: Why do I overlook the ovious 'way too often?

[Jay Yuskaitis]

Hi folks, I intend to agree with Rich. I have an 1863 54 cal Shiloh #3 Sporter built in 1983 that was bought used a few years ago that was well used and well maintained. We have shot this very often, (hundreds), and have to say, have had no "gas escape problems" at all! I do admit the cleaning of this beauty, is somewhat time consuming, removing of the gas seal etc. and properly lubing it can be a pain. BUT, it is just as good as the day it left N.Y. TOP QUALITY USA BUILT, AS ALL SHILOHS. There is a world of info on this 1863 site, if'n you are willing to go back to day one, and, read... Also would like to thank Charlie Hahn, at this time, for all he's done for the Sharps percussion breach loader. THANKS AGAIN, CHARLIE. Jay Y.

[KL]

I understand the accuracy of the 1863s is about the same as the 1874s at all ranges. I don't see why it would not be but is that true?

[Charlie Hahn]

Just a note regarding the breech seal design I do. I do agree that if you have a new Shiloh you need to think twice before you have it modified. For some customers I do fit a second breech block with the solid modification, but the barrel has to be modified to make it work. I have seen "some" well used rifles that function without modification, but with out an interference floating fit and a movable part they leak. To check this look at the underside of your rifle after you fire, and I believe you will see residue, as well as the sides of the mortise. Also, if you have a well used rifle that does not show erosion on the gas check, look at the face of the breech and the frame. With the harder gas checks, the gas jet will be taking the material from the softer back of the barrel and I have seen rifles where the frame, and end of the barrel is eroded severely.

One other check I suggest is to have someone video you shooting an look at this in slow motion, it might just surprise you.

The modification is not for everyone, and I consult with each customer BEFORE and work is done. I hope to add two loaner guns to my hoard this Spring for trails so the customer can make an informed decision

Regards

Charlie Hahn
410-208-4736