Care and feeding of Shiloh 1863 Carbine

Support for the 1863 shooter. Discussions of powders, loads, bullets, etc.
John Matthews
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Care and feeding of Shiloh 1863 Carbine

Post by John Matthews » Thu May 03, 2012 9:01 pm

Hi there all,

I'm a newbie here. No flaming arrows or buckshot in my general direction till I get my general sense of direction please.

I've got an 1863 Shiloh 54 carbine on order and need some help here. I'll be new to the Sharps. I've had experience with a T/C Renagade 54 and several Colt and Remington 44 and 36 revolvers. I have a couple of questions for now but I'm sure I'll have a lot more when the carbine arrives.

1. I understand the bore measures .532 between the lands and .540 overall. I can't find any .540 bullets or balls out there. I ordered some ring-tail bullets from Dixie before I found out the bore dimensions and these bullets are .544 for the Perdosili Sharps. Buffalo has some 54's but they're .542. Does anyone know where I can find some bullets? I really can't consider casting right now as I'm short on space and don't have the room for it right now.

2. I'd like to use Charlie's Tubes till I can get some practice on rolling my own cartridges. What powder charge is the carbine set up for? I know this depends on the size bullet but there must be some length for use with a mid-weight conical. I've heard 70 to 80 grains mentioned. Someone told me the other day that I can use as much powder as I want in the Sharps. I don't think that's right. I saw mention of the 1.2 inch tube for carbines on the 1863 forum page.

I really want to shoot this gun shortly after it arrives. I just need the right advice and "stuff".

Have a great evening everyone,

John

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Free_Stater
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Re: Care and feeding of Shiloh 1863 Carbine

Post by Free_Stater » Fri May 04, 2012 12:45 am

The .544 ringtails should shoot just fine.

As usual when someone comes in here asking about how to load the 63, I will almost always revert to being a purist and suggest making up paper cartridges instead of using the Hahn tubes, but many people swear by the tubes.

If you're concerned about using an oversize bullet, why not go with a Minie style? Just a thought. I have a Lee Minie mold that works well, but I do understand about space limitations. Been there, done that, but I adapted the space I had to the job I needed to do.

I'm about half asleep and was going to log off when I found your post, and I did want to answer before I went to bed, so I'll leave you with a couple of photos. Cartridges can be manufactured using just about any kind of bullet that will work in the Shiloh.

These are loaded with the classic ringtail style bullets as dropped from an old NEI mold.

Image

And these are the Lee Minie (415 grains). The Minie is cast of pure lead, the ringtail of 60 parts lead to 1 part tin.

Image

And here's the midst of a cartridge making session on a folding table in my living room.

Image
When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

lmcmahon
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Re: Care and feeding of Shiloh 1863 Carbine

Post by lmcmahon » Fri May 04, 2012 5:13 am

I use the Rapine 544475 bullet with 43.5 grain of 3 FFF Swiss powder. Also use Charlie Hahn's tubes with excellent results. Use a small brush to lube the bullet. Ringtail on bullet fits tight in Charlie's tubes where no glue is needed to attach tube to base of bullet.
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snapcap14
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Re: Care and feeding of Shiloh 1863 Carbine

Post by snapcap14 » Fri May 04, 2012 11:01 am

I'm using 39 gr. 2ffg goex brooks bullet designed for charlies tubes and charlies tubes
per charlie 3fffg is not recommended it will erode your gas check plate prematurely
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lmcmahon
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Re: Care and feeding of Shiloh 1863 Carbine

Post by lmcmahon » Fri May 04, 2012 11:56 am

snapcap14 wrote:I'm using 39 gr. 2ffg goex brooks bullet designed for charlies tubes and charlies tubes
per charlie 3fffg is not recommended it will erode your gas check plate prematurely
That answers a question I had. When are you getting to the nationals?
Linwood
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snapcap14
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Re: Care and feeding of Shiloh 1863 Carbine

Post by snapcap14 » Fri May 04, 2012 12:02 pm

on the 16th be there about dinner time. emailing you my 6 shot group. do not know how to post it here
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John Matthews
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Re: Care and feeding of Shiloh 1863 Carbine

Post by John Matthews » Fri May 04, 2012 8:04 pm

Free_Stater,

Thanks for the advice. I had been looking at your paper cartridge construction about a week ago before I signed up for the forum. I think I can handle this at home with no problem but I'm sure it's going to take some practice.

I'm still a little concerned about using the .544 bullets in a .540 bore. Is there that much room for these .544 to work in the Shiloh? I don't want to end up with an $1800 piece of scrap metal or worse.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lmcmahon,

I'll probably start out with Charlie's tubes till I get a hang of the new gun. Thanks for the tips.

................................................................................................................................................................................................

snapcap14,

 You beat me to another question I was about to ask concerning 3F or 2F. Thanks for the info.

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snapcap14
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Re: Care and feeding of Shiloh 1863 Carbine

Post by snapcap14 » Fri May 04, 2012 8:37 pm

the tubes i use in my shiloh are 1.80 long that gives me about 1/16" clearance in the breach. i use cow filler seperated from the charge by perm paper. bullet drop from my mold between 542 - 543. to know the lenght you need seat bullet you will use then measure the breach. add lenght of the ringtail then subtract 1/16" that is the lenght I use.. lube I use is beeswax olive oil 50/50. For lubing the block i use high pressure grease. for lubing the gas check face I just started use pam non-stick spray. last 2 outtings I was able to get 100 rounds thru it without freezing up.
Standing on the ROCK
14th VA. Cav.
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John Matthews
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Re: Care and feeding of Shiloh 1863 Carbine

Post by John Matthews » Fri May 04, 2012 9:50 pm

Thanks snapcap14!

JM

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snapcap14
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Re: Care and feeding of Shiloh 1863 Carbine

Post by snapcap14 » Sat May 05, 2012 7:52 am

John Matthews wrote:Thanks snapcap14!

JM
If you want to try the brooks bullet I use let me know. I will send you 20 or so to try. I do not have a large supply of charlies tubes but can send you a few of them to check out.
pm me w/ an address. Just please cover shipping w/ you get them.
Standing on the ROCK
14th VA. Cav.
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Free_Stater
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Re: Care and feeding of Shiloh 1863 Carbine

Post by Free_Stater » Sat May 05, 2012 9:53 am

John, I have some extra Minie bullets and would be happy to send you a few of those as well. They're lubed and ready to load. Send me your mailing address in a PM.
When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

John Matthews
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 7:30 pm
Location: San Joaquin Valley, California

Re: Care and feeding of Shiloh 1863 Carbine

Post by John Matthews » Sat May 05, 2012 11:08 am

Free_Stater,

OK, I'm still trying to figure out some of the controls on this forum page. I think I see how to PM you now.

BTW, I lived in Meridian for about a year in 94. I sure miss the crawfish boils!

Frank
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Re: Care and feeding of Shiloh 1863 Carbine

Post by Frank » Tue May 08, 2012 2:19 pm

Free-Starter,

I see by your pictures that you use the 54 ca. C.W. Cartridge nitrate papers. I have used the C.W. Cartridge papers for several years and used the last of my supply last week. Do you have a source that the papers can be ordered from?

Frank
SHILOH 74 #1 SPORTER
SHILOH 63 CARBINE
SHILOH 1
SHILOH SHARPS RIFLE CLUB
TRUE SPORTSMAN CLUB
NRA
SASS

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Free_Stater
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Re: Care and feeding of Shiloh 1863 Carbine

Post by Free_Stater » Tue May 08, 2012 2:38 pm

Sorry, Frank, but those came in the loading kit included with the carbine I bought last year off Gunbroker. They're not made any longer, but Shiloh does sell the nitrated paper. It's expensive, so when I'm out, I'm out. Then I'll use the permanent papers from the beauty supply place. They work great, and they cost something like five for a penny. That's about as inexpensive as I can compute and still call it an "expense."

PS: my carbine came with 700 of those CW papers and well over 1,000 musket caps, bullet mold and factory cast bullets. I felt like I'd hit the jackpot after being struck--twice--by lightning. :mrgreen:
When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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snapcap14
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Re: Care and feeding of Shiloh 1863 Carbine

Post by snapcap14 » Tue May 08, 2012 3:09 pm

I to use perm papers on and off, they are a little flimsy. What will hold up better is adding machine paper. I have stopped nitrating both. Thy burn up just as well. or go out the barrel anyway. Mostly use charlies tubes for shoots they hold up better when loading fast. Use the paper for practice. For a lot of shooting Charlies tube can get expansive. Ya I know shooting is expensive anyway lead, powder, caps. Tubes are the only thing you can save on.
Standing on the ROCK
14th VA. Cav.
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