Compress loads

[Pappy]

Does a person really need a compression die to reload black powder. I know when you load black powder you surly don't want a gap between the powder and the bullet because it will cause a ring fire which is not good. I am trying to get better accuracy out of my 50/90 sharps. Is a compression die worth it and if so what would be a good one to purchase.

[Nuclearcricket]

Pappy, let me start off by saying that you may get better response if you post this in the support or shooter to shooter areas. Other than that, depending on your powder, some place between a little and a good bit of compression seems to help accuracy. Buffalo Arms does sell a compression die and interchangeable stems. They are not expensive and I think they are a good investment in consistency. They will make sure that you powder stack is the same height each time and that your bullet can be set the same each time. The best way to load is to pick a powder charge that will fill the case to just above the base of the bullet, insert wad and seat the bullet so that it sets tight to the powder. If that load isn't accurate enough then a compression die will help. Set the die so it compresses the powder and your wad to the depth of your seated bullet and then increase the powder charge by 1 to 3 grains per step till your accuracy increases to the level you want.
I hope this helps you out some.
Sam

[Pappy]

Well thanks answering my questions. So even though I have a 50/90 sharps, and different size of bullets in weight and length, I thought since it is a 50/90 a person should start a load at 90 grains and work up. I am a little new to black powder reloading even though i have been reloading for over 30 years. So to get better accuracy it is good practice to fill the case up to the base of the bullet to start a load and then work up from there as you stated.

[Nuclearcricket]

I think what Buffalo Arms sells for a compression die body is a Lyman Neck Expander die body. It is threaded 9/16-18 for the compression plug. To determine your powder height, take an empty case and seat a bullet to the desired depth, measure the over all length, then subtract the case length and the bullets over all length, the negative number you come up with is your compression depth. Fill your case with enough powder that it comes up to this dimension. You can measure this with the depth stem on your calipers. Then place a wad on the powder and adjust your compression stem down until it just barely compresses the powder. Then what I do is measure the over all length of the compression die with the compression stem adjusted to where you want it. Write this down on a card along with the charge weight, and bullet. This way you will have a record of your settings for each different bullet.
Shoot that load and see how it does. Next step will be to add a few grains of powder and see how that shoots. The only thing what will change will be how much powder you put in the case and how much it is compressed.
You can then do the same thing with each different bullet you have. Some bullets may have different length noses but the seating depth may stay the same, that would be a bonus.
Finding just the right load for each bullet, powder, wad combination will take some time and effort but it will pay off in the long run. Always remember change only one thing at a time.
Things that have worked well for me is LDPE (low density ploy Etheline) .030 thick and then a wax paper wad and then the bullet. The wax paper it to keep your heavier wad from sticking to the base of the bullet. If the wax paper sticks it doesn't have enough mass to effect your bullet where as the thicker wad can. Some people have good luck just using cardboard wads and others have good luck with cork and felt wads.
There are many things to try and many variables. But when you hit that sweet load and it all comes together it will be worth all the work you put into it. You gun will tell you when your doing things right and moving in the right direction by putting bullets closer and closer together, it will also tell you when it don't like what you did too by spraying them all over the place.
As a small example, I picked up a new bullet mold for my 38-55 and tried it out earlier this year. I just dropped 45 gr of powder in the case, cardboard and wax paper wad and the bullet. Once dialed in, I was able to keep 10 shots in a row on a silhouette pig at 300 meters without any problem. Now keep i mind that I was all over the pig, but it stayed on the pig. I am thinking a little more powder and that bullet will be a real winner on the pig line and maybe, just maybe get me a chicken or 2.
I hope this helps and gives you a place to start and to improve.
Shoot well and shoot often.
Sam

[Pappy]

Thanks Sam, I got a lot to learn, but it will be fun and time consuming working up a load for the big 50. I will be placing an order for the compression die tomorrow. I am sure I can come up with a good load.
Thanks again Pappy.

[Nuclearcricket]

One thing I did forget to mention , and you should have seen this mentioned if you have read over posts on here about reloading, is to use a drop tube. This is something you can either purchase or make your self if you have some basic tools and skills. Many people use one between 2 and 3 feet in length. They are really nothing more than a length of copper pipe with a a funnel on top. As for me, mine is only 18" long but it seems to work for me. It might be interesting to see what the difference in powder height would be between my short tube and one twice as long. I built mine from a plated sink supply line. I went that route because it was available. It was flanged on the one end and had a plastic seal. I machined the flange off and fitted a funnel to it and used the seal as a stop to be able to adjust the height for different cartridges. If need be I can try to post up a pic of it for you to look at. Or you can go to the Buffalo Arms site and look at what they have. With my short tube I can just set it on the bench to use it, with the longer ones they will need to be attached to something so they don't fall over in use and make a mess everywhere.
Take care and have fun.
Sam