Nitrated paper production

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Free_Stater
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Nitrated paper production

Post by Free_Stater »

I have five pounds of pure KNO3 (potassium nitrate) on the way via UPS, but I'm curious about a good, absorbent paper that's heavy enough to make a robust cartridge, as well as something that will absorb a high concentration of nitrate in order to combust fully.

Any ideas?
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Free_Stater
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Re: Nitrated paper production

Post by Free_Stater »

First try with Southworth 24 pound resume bond, 100% cotton. And the first try looks as if it may be the last. The paper hydrates well and dries nice and flat. The burn rate is kind of slower than what I'd want, but it doesn't take much to start it. If anything, my mixture of water and KNO3 is too low, but I really thought I was at maximum solution before the stuff becomes a suspension. It looks as if two cups of KNO3 to a half-gallon of water will be about right.

All in all, this was just way too easy. Drying the paper presented a minor issue as you can't exactly use clothespins to hang the stuff on the line, but hanging it over a wire coathanger and letting it air dry for 24 hours seems to do the trick.

Success on the first try.
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Straightneck
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Re: Nitrated paper production

Post by Straightneck »

curious, would a small wooden frame (water proofed) with window screen work for drying,,, and you could possibly dip a second time for a higher concentration of nitrate
Mason
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Straightneck
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Re: Nitrated paper production

Post by Straightneck »

Edit of my reply;;; I was also thinking a screened frame would give a more even drying and even saturation of nitrate in the paper, when I hang something to dry the lower ends always dry last,, this perhaps will cause more concentration at the ends of your paper ???
Dipping paper in solution again (2-3times) may work like dipping candles giving you a deeper (heavier) concentration in or on the paper
Mason
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Free_Stater
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Re: Nitrated paper production

Post by Free_Stater »

I had thought of the wire frame idea, and it's a great idea. Of the paper I've done, I'm going to dip all of it a second time, too. I had already decided that. And while I'm not certain, it's possible that my burning experiment was made with paper that was still a very slight bit damp.

The reason I didn't go with the wire screen is that it would require so much real estate to make a reasonable amount of paper. I have about 400 sheets of nitrated cartridge paper on hand already, but I thought I could make it better, as well as being curious how well the decades-old paper would function. I don't think it matters much, as the Shiloh brand paper I have seems to work pretty darned well.
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snapcap14
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Re: Nitrated paper production

Post by snapcap14 »

Personaly can't be bothered nitrating any more. W Perm papers its not needed. And I have several lbs of the stuff.
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WileyCoyote
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Re: Nitrated paper production

Post by WileyCoyote »

Good luck with the nitrated paper, but I really don't think it's necessary. I nitrated some paper, and dipped it a couple of times to get a good concentration. I honestly can't tell the difference between it and just normal onion paper or whatever thinner paper you want to put on the burn end of the cartridge.
Tombstone Canyon
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Re: Nitrated paper production

Post by Tombstone Canyon »

I messed around with nitriding paper for quite a while until I had an epiphany while eating a Subway sandwich. As I was chomping my Black Forest Ham it occurred to me that the paper they use for wrapping the sandwiches (the thin paper with the Subway logo all over it) is very strong but thin at the same time. I sweet talked one of the people at the register into giving me half a dozen sheets that I took home and rolled up a few cartridges with. I have a paper cutter that really helps as these are BIG sheets.
A trip to the range showed that the paper worked just fine. You do have to be careful with the thinner paper tubes as you work but, I could not find any paper or ash down range or in the bore. The stiffer papers with nitride makes a more durable cartridge but the sandwich wrap is so easy and cheap it's hard to pass up. If the advertising bothers you, these same papers can be bought on the web as sandwich wrapper and usually come with red or black squares that make your rounds look like Chinese fireworks.
Not having to mess with nitriding and having a paper that's fully consumed by the firing process is a good alternative to the traditional methods without loosing much in the process.
jmr600
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Re: Nitrated paper production

Post by jmr600 »

Been using subway paper for years with 100%.
borderdogs
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Re: Nitrated paper production

Post by borderdogs »

I did this years ago, 30+ at least. I used light brown packing paper it was strong and had good absorption. What I use to do is boil the paper in water and let it air dry then soak in in the nitrated solution. To determine the papers ability to absorb the solution I would weigh the pre-cut paper prior to boiling then weigh it after it cooled to see how much water in weight the paper absorbed. Then let it completely air dry and weight it again to see if there was a change after boiling. Then once nitrated and ready for use I would weight one final time to see how much of the nitrated solution the paper actually absorbed by weight.


The idea of boiling the paper came from a guy I knew in college who was majoring in Forestry. He said by allowing the cells to absorb the water through boiling would expand the cells increasing the amount they would hold. Letting them air dry completely would allow them to contract and would result in the paper wanting to curl as the cells contracted. When putting them in the nitrated solution the idea was that the cells would more readily absorb the mosture. Of course you would only have to go through this process once for a given paper. What I found was there was a slight increase in weight when boiled and dried but I could never tell if that extra (albeit slight) amount of solution made any difference. The solution I made was a supersaturated one and the paper would actually have some crystal dust on them once dipped in it and dried.

If you put a tail on your paper cartridge and don't nitrate the paper the tail will be cut off when you lift the lever and the powder will be exposed. From what I have read over the years the idea of nitrating paper was to allow the cartridge to be loaded without it being necessary to have the end cut as the cartridge is loaded into the rifle.

When I get my 63 I will not use rolled cartridges again.........life is too short...
Rob
aka "borderdogs"
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