Paper Cartridge

Support for the 1863 shooter. Discussions of powders, loads, bullets, etc.
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tljack
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:01 pm
Location: Helena Montana

Paper Cartridge

Post by tljack »

Today I have begun attempting to make paper cartridges. Although I now have 3 percussion Sharps firearms, I have always been lazy and just dumped powder in taking care not to get it shifted to the fore stock (that could be a bit more excitement than this ole guy needs)

Anyway, so far I have not completed any. I got my dowel and made a paper templet using a cottage cheese container lid.

I cast my bullets with a Pedersoli Christmas Tree mold. They have a place to tie them in place with a silk thread.

I have been told that post it note work good as paper.

I am having difficulty tying the bullet to the paper. Apparently you can glue it in place. What kind of glue is used for this?

I would appreciate any ideas on how to successfully do this. I have looked at I believe all of the youtube videos at this point.
AussiePete
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:31 am

Re: Paper Cartridge

Post by AussiePete »

I know how you feel. I've been constructing paper cartridges in anticipation of the imminent arrival of the 1863. Understanding that I haven't shot a cartridge yet I have had quite some success in producing the paper cartridge. Tomorrow I'll take some photos and post them for you. I used ladies hair perming papers, they're cheap and strong. I glue then to the Christmas tree projectile with stick glue, the same stick glue school children use, the one that winds out like a ladies lipstick ....... Works a treat. I have used a modified 45/70 brass case as a mandrill that fits the base of the Christmas tree projectile and allows the paper to be fitted and formed. Working carefully it all seems to go well. :D

As for the Jungle Carbine, I shoot this very successfully. I use a reduced powder load, with a 150 grain jacketed projectile instead of the original military 178 grain full jacketed projectile. With a reduced powder load, bullet traveling at or about 2000 f/s instead of 2500 f/s, and the reduced weight of the projectile, the recoil is very manageable. :)

Wandering zero, Ahhhh an old chestnut here. I have never had reason to suspect this however I haven't fired sustained long stings of rapid fire shots. The theory is that as the Jungle Carbine's action was substantially lighten during manufacture and enough metal was removed such that when there was sustained rapid fire the resultant heat would act on the lightened receiver unequally, and, perhaps slightly distorting the receiver thereby createing the "wandering zero". All I can say is that with the reduced loads mentioned and during the military carbine matches I have yet to experience this phenomenon. When using full military rounds the Jungle Carbine "kills at both ends" ......... Hahahahaha ........ the carbine becomes a beast and very noisy to boot. :shock:
Cheers for now
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whoop-up country
Posts: 325
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:28 pm
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada

Re: Paper Cartridge

Post by whoop-up country »

Thanks Pete.
I will have to try that in the spring.
Reduced loads with the lighter bullets had crossed my mind.
Goo to know. :D

Bob.
tljack
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:01 pm
Location: Helena Montana

Re: Paper Cartridge

Post by tljack »

As for the Jungle Carbine, I shoot this very successfully. "Jungle Carbine"........what is that?

Appreciate all the info you have shared. You say you are using a reduced load. What do you consider a full load and a reduced load?

Terry
AussiePete
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:31 am

Re: Paper Cartridge

Post by AussiePete »

The Jungle Carbine is a British .303 10 shot bolt action military rifle sometimes called the Mark 5. It was designed for close jungle type use and consequently has a shorter barrel and has been considerably lightened during manufacture.

Reduced loads I refer to is the reduced power charge when reloading the cartridges. For example, I use a 150grain full jacketed projectile with a diameter of .312", Sierra or similar. The original military projectile was 174 grain full metal jacket. I use ADI powders, Benchmark II, ADI stands for Australian Defence Industries.
The maximum load behind a 150grain projectile for Benchmark II is 38grains for a velocity of 2650 f/s.
I use a reduced powder load of 34grains of Benchmark II that gives a velocity of approx. 2200 f/s
Of course there are equivalents to the ADI powders, a search on the Internet will provide these tables.

Hope this info is of use.

Cheers
borderdogs
Posts: 425
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:44 pm
Location: Hillsboro, NH

Re: Paper Cartridge

Post by borderdogs »

tljack,
When I rolled paper cartridges I turned an aluminum dowel slightly undersized to the bullet diameter and glued the paper tube with paper glue (the old school kind with the rubber top with a hole in it). I did not glue the bullet to the paper. While the paper was still supported on the dowel I pulled it out a ways to make a crease & fold then unfolded it prior to this though you would have to figure out how much powder you were going to use to determine where the fold would be. I would drop a bullet in the tube and let tension of the paper roll hold the bullet. You might have to play with the diameter at first but it works pretty well once you get the size right. Then I would make around 50-75 rolls I would drop my bullets in the tubes and load them on a tray. At that point you were ready to drop your charges from a drop tube or whatever means you want to use. The advantage of using tension rather than gluing the bullet to the paper is that it will always break free of the bullet when fired.

I nitrated my own paper for a while and it was a mess process. The best paper I used was the brown paper used in shipping, the light stuff but also some of the copy paper worked well too. I rolled for a while but found I would rather use a powder flask and greased bullets it was quick and easy. When I get my 63 I will shoot it with loose powder.
Rob
aka "borderdogs"
tljack
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:01 pm
Location: Helena Montana

Re: Paper Cartridge

Post by tljack »

AussiePete,

OK. I am now with you. I mistakenly thought you were talking about a 63 Sharps shooting Black.

Terry
tljack
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:01 pm
Location: Helena Montana

Re: Paper Cartridge

Post by tljack »

Borderdog,

Thanks for this information. I now have 4 - 63's. A Armisport Berdan rifle, and original 63, converted to 50-70, another original that is percussion and my new to me Famingdale. At this point I have always simply dropped a bullet into the chamber, added black and shot away.

Always thought I'd like to try making the paper cartridges and giving them a try.

Terry
AussiePete
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:31 am

Re: Paper Cartridge

Post by AussiePete »

No worries Terry

I'm patiently waiting for my 1863. Getting quite excited. I have ordered it in .50 calibre. When it arrives and I jump through tHe hoops as required by law here in Australia, :roll: I'll let you guys know.

I'll be looking for pointers and tips on keeping the wee beastie clean etc..

Cheers
For now

Peter :D
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