Should I get this rifle???

Support for the 1863 shooter. Discussions of powders, loads, bullets, etc.
Amigo
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Re: Should I get this rifle???

Post by Amigo » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:08 pm

The best bullet to shoot in the percussion sharps rifles is the ringtail or Christmas tree type
Always aim to be careful and always be careful
to aim

Top Dog
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Location: North East USA

Re: Should I get this rifle???

Post by Top Dog » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:10 am

Amigo,
Thanks for the advice. Right now I am expect a LEE R.E.A.L. mold for a 380 gr bullet to come in. I will give that a try and then check out the ones you suggested.

Top Dog
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George Babits
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Re: Should I get this rifle???

Post by George Babits » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:45 am

I've never used the ring tail Sharps bullet. I guess that is pretty close to the original. I've been using the Lyman 54 caliber hollow base and it works very well. Haven't tried it in the original yet. Nitrated up a bunch of paper last week and rolled a couple dozen cartridges. I want to make sure they are going to "combust" before I make any more, but the weather isn't cooperating much.

George

Top Dog
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Re: Should I get this rifle???

Post by Top Dog » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:08 pm

George,
I am interested to see how your "paper" cartridges work out.

Funny thing,in the early 1980s,H&K came out with new "caseless" cartridges for their rifles. Nothing mew about it being that the paper cartridges were "caseless" long before theirs.

Top Dog
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Yopu never know which ones you're gonna eat

George Babits
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Re: Should I get this rifle???

Post by George Babits » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:36 pm

Well, the Subway paper and newspaper just vaporize without the KNO3, but they are pretty flimsey. I'm usuing some good bond for the nitrated paper so that the cartridges won't be so flimsel. I may have to go try a few in the snow if the weather doesn't get better soon.

George

Top Dog
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Re: Should I get this rifle???

Post by Top Dog » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:20 am

If I tried to "nitrate" some paper,I probably would blow up the entire house and the shop to boot!!!!

Come to think of it,the project kind of intrigues me. Might just have to try it out.

If I don't reply.............................

Top Dog
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George Babits
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Re: Should I get this rifle???

Post by George Babits » Fri Dec 16, 2016 4:11 pm

KNO3 isn't explosive, especially in a saturated water solution. I just dumped a pound into a quart jar and filled it up with water. Only about half dissolves. Just keep shaking. When the pile in the bottom doesn't get any smaller, pour the liquid into a shallow pan that a piece of paper will fit in. Set a piece of paper into the solution. When the edges start to curl, turn it over and let it sit a couple minutes more. Then hang it up to dry. When dry, cut to size for the paper cartridges. For a "pan" I used a plastic storage tray for holding papers. They have a nice cover on them to keep the dust out. When you have done a few papers pour the liquid back into the quart jar and save it for the next time. Anyway, that's what I did. Just need to see if I let the paper soak long enough.

George

Straightneck
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Re: Should I get this rifle???

Post by Straightneck » Fri Dec 16, 2016 4:55 pm

To increase KNO3 concentration/saturation in/on the paper. I've been told it can be re-dipped and quickly re-wet 2-3 times with solution after thorough drying each time,, Or,, solution can be put in a spray bottle with a fine mist adjustment nozzle to re-wet paper 2-4 times ---either way will increase concentration/saturation of KNO3 in/on the paper

Sounds logical to me I've not tried it

Mason
Three "G's" made AMERICA GREAT
GOD-Girls-Guns

George Babits
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Re: Should I get this rifle???

Post by George Babits » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:16 pm

Try it and then tell us if it works; otherwise it is just hearsay.

George

Top Dog
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Re: Should I get this rifle???

Post by Top Dog » Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:22 am

Being that I am totally new to this "nitrate" business,what is the purpose to nitrate the paper? Does it make it stronger or enable the paper to burn more efficiently?

This process really interests me as it seems to be more efficient to load a paper cartridge instead of trying to dump loose powder into the chamber.

Top Dog
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Choose them soft and sweet
Yopu never know which ones you're gonna eat

Straightneck
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Re: Should I get this rifle???

Post by Straightneck » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:19 am

George Babits wrote:Try it and then tell us if it works; otherwise it is just hearsay.

George
George, It's all "hearsay" until you try it,, I don't shoot a paper cartridge Sharps. I don't need to try it. :D I have read on the subject and was passing on information I have. I also have mix/concentration amounts/values for how much KNO3 will dissolve in a given amount of water, but that would be science "hearsay" for you,, I don't need no stinking :shock: science I'll just keep dumping a pound in some water and give it a stir as he says "Now Watch This" while he's still waiting to see
George Babits wrote: Anyway, that's what I did. Just need to see if I let the paper soak long enough.

Mason
Three "G's" made AMERICA GREAT
GOD-Girls-Guns

George Babits
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Re: Should I get this rifle???

Post by George Babits » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:02 am

For Top Dog,

The purpose of the KNO3 soaking of the paper is to insure complete combustion of the paper cartridge. It does stiffen the paper a little bit too. And, if my memory serves me right, the extra KNO3 seems to make the powder burn cleaner.

For Straightneck;

There are chemical formulae which will tell you just how much KNO3 will dissolve in a given amount of water. That catch is that it depends on the temperature of the water. I looked it up and it worked out to about 3/4 pound in a quart. That certainly didn't happen when I put it into the quart jar and added water. Ended up just dumping the whole pound, stirring and shaking until the pile in the bottom didn't get any smaller. So the solution is "saturated" at the temperature of my shop. If you use hot water, you can get more to dissolve and , theoretically, have a higher density of KNO3 in the paper. But probably not worth the trouble. Would you believe that the old Shiloh Book on the 1863 Sharps actually has instructions on making the paper cartridges for those of us who still read things on paper. I am pretty much following the instructions that Wolf Droege put in his booklet.

George

Top Dog
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Re: Should I get this rifle???

Post by Top Dog » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:12 am

Thank you for that advice. I will try to look up that booklet,if not,then get the book.

Being that the troops during the civil war had made up thee rounds in the field under difficult conditions,I think that I may be able to do this under ideal conditions.

Top Dog
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George Babits
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Re: Should I get this rifle???

Post by George Babits » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:38 pm

If you can't find a copy of the Shiloh booklet, I can scan the one I have and send it to you. I don't think that the troops in the field were making their own paper cartridges. The Yankees got them from Sharsp and/or other contractors. The paper cartridges were the weakness of the Sharps because they fell apart if they got very wet, but so did a lot of other carbine ammunition. Sharps switched to a linnen cartridge about mid-war. They stood up to a little more abuse than the paper ones did. I guess that was the real advantage of the Spencer with its self contained, and more or less waterproof, cartridge. That was about the only advantage the Spencer really had; that and being a repeater. They were terribly inaccurate. The Maynard, with its metal cartridge, did pretty well also.

George

Top Dog
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Re: Should I get this rifle???

Post by Top Dog » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:15 am

George,
Thank you for the very nice offer,but let me see what I can come up with first.

Many decades ago (yeah,I am old) I toured Williamsburg and I have a vague recollection of a tour guide showing how the soldiers made the paper cartridges.

To say the very least,it was interesting.

Top Dog
Be carefull of the words you speak
Choose them soft and sweet
Yopu never know which ones you're gonna eat

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