Nipples, enlarging the flash hole?

Support for the 1863 shooter. Discussions of powders, loads, bullets, etc.
bwbayless
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Location: Lebanon, Indian Nations, OK

Nipples, enlarging the flash hole?

Post by bwbayless » Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:55 am

Noticed a post by Rich Siegel on this subject. Anyone have a size for good results?

Bob

gmartin
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Post by gmartin » Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:48 pm

Bob,
I looked through my prints of posts past and found nada yet. I remember this discussion possibly in Black Powder Shooting as someone talked of finding a nipple for a '63 as a spare. I'll keep looking.
Gregg

bwbayless
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 7:22 am
Location: Lebanon, Indian Nations, OK

Post by bwbayless » Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:26 am

Gregg,

Got out my number bits and checked the nipples. They would accept a #60. According to the chart, .040". I opened one up with a #55. Shank measured .054". Don't want to get to large and start blowing the hammer back. Shoot it in a day or two when it dries a little. Got 3" of rain.

Bob

gmartin
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Post by gmartin » Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:40 am

Thank you, still trying to locate the post I originally saw this at. Gregg

gmartin
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Post by gmartin » Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:14 pm

Bob,
Go to "NIpples for "63 Percusssion" in SUPPORT. Rich is there and good discussion.
Gregg

bwbayless
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Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 7:22 am
Location: Lebanon, Indian Nations, OK

Post by bwbayless » Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:57 pm

Well I took it out today. Breech block release was rather stiff to begin with and I thought it might loosen up with firing.............wrong! Got real stiff after the first shot but did not seem to get any worse. Guess I need to loosen it up some.

No misfires or hang fires so it looks like that small amount I opened the nipple up will work ok.

Didn't shoot a lot but put 3 rounds into a 6" square a couple of times. No better than I can see and with open iron sights I was satisfied for the time being.

Wish the 45-70 carbine did as well. 18" low and left. Got some work to do.

Bob

gmartin
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Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:55 pm
Location: Boise Id

Nipple enlarging for 1863.

Post by gmartin » Tue Apr 27, 2004 7:36 pm

Bob,
Always interested in other's experiences. "Breech Release" is a term I'm not familiar with. If I remember correctly this was a Garrett Arms '63 .54 carbine that you had work done on the bouching and by yourself on the nipple enlargement. (now how does that sound?)
I take it that the weapon had trouble with the ignition, thus the need for opening up the nipple work?
Your shooting wasn't specified but I take it that this was at 100 yds. May I enquire as to your the rounds you fired. Be they flat based cartridges with ball inserted?, perhaps tapped in bullet with a starter and a folded cartridge as I used to do, (but now greatly prefer a self contained cartridge.) The bullet?
The 45/70 was a '74 military carbine, correct, with typical Lawrence type ladder sight as with the "63's? I hope you'll be able to find the sights able to adjust to your POA.
I do so love the '63's! Best, Gregg

gmartin
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:55 pm
Location: Boise Id

Nipple enlarging for 1863.

Post by gmartin » Tue Apr 27, 2004 7:36 pm

Bob,
Always interested in other's experiences. "Breech Release" is a term I'm not familiar with. If I remember correctly this was a Garrett Arms '63 .54 carbine that you had work done on the bouching and by yourself on the nipple enlargement. (now how does that sound?)
I take it that the weapon had trouble with the ignition, thus the need for opening up the nipple work?
Your shooting wasn't specified but I take it that this was at 100 yds. May I enquire as to your the rounds you fired. Be they flat based cartridges with ball inserted?, perhaps tapped in bullet with a starter and a folded cartridge as I used to do, (but now greatly prefer a self contained cartridge.) The bullet?
The 45/70 was a '74 military carbine, correct, with typical Lawrence type ladder sight as with the "63's? I hope you'll be able to find the sights able to adjust to your POA.
I do so love the '63's! Best, Gregg

gmartin
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:55 pm
Location: Boise Id

Nipple enlarging for 1863.

Post by gmartin » Tue Apr 27, 2004 7:37 pm

Bob,
Always interested in other's experiences. "Breech Release" is a term I'm not familiar with. If I remember correctly this was a Garrett Arms '63 .54 carbine that you had work done on the bouching and by yourself on the nipple enlargement. (now how does that sound?)
I take it that the weapon had trouble with the ignition, thus the need for opening up the nipple work?
Your shooting wasn't specified but I take it that this was at 100 yds. May I enquire as to your the rounds you fired. Be they flat based cartridges with ball inserted?, perhaps tapped in bullet with a starter and a folded cartridge as I used to do, (but now greatly prefer a self contained cartridge.) The bullet?
The 45/70 was a '74 military carbine, correct, with typical Lawrence type ladder sight as with the "63's? I hope you'll be able to find the sights able to adjust to your POA.
I do so love the '63's! Best, Gregg

bwbayless
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 7:22 am
Location: Lebanon, Indian Nations, OK

Post by bwbayless » Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:06 pm

Gregg,

Yeah, had some work done. Machinist made me a new chamber sleeve & gas plate. I installed them and adjusted the bouche. Wanted it snug but guess I did not relieve it enough. Will work on it tomorrow. What I meant by breech release is dropping the breech block. First shot it got a good deal snugger and didn't want to release. Dropped OK with a little more pressure on the lever but it did not get any worse through the rest of the session. To snug for comfort.

Yes I also had some ignition problems but believe I have taken care of them.

The cartridge: Flat based, using one wrap of fairly light wieght copy paper and cigarette paper base. All heavily nitered. 65 grains 3fg GOEX, ice cream carton wad over and a 500 grain NEI ring tail bullet pan lubed. Pan lubing effectively gives me a grease cookie on the ring tail. I cut an 1 5/8 wax paper circle with an arc punch that will cover the lube and helps to keep it off the paper. It is tight enough that I do not tie it. I do a little woodworking so I made some wooden loading dies that help. Sounds more complicated than it is. Have an idea for a compression die when I get a little more time.

100 yards. Actually had a horizotal string across the bull (2"). Two in the bull and the third 4" left of center. It is capable of better.

The carbine is a 45-70, just got it in Feb. First time I've shot it. Took me a while to tool up for it. Gave all my reloading gear to my son a couple years ago thinking I was through with it. Had to start from scratch. Did hang on to my casting stuff because of the muzzel loaders. Think I have enough height on the front sight to take care of the 18" low but not sure how I'm gonna move it 18" right. I'll work on it.

Bob

gmartin
Posts: 359
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Location: Boise Id

Nipple enlarging for 1863.

Post by gmartin » Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:45 pm

BOB,
MY WIFE MESSED WITH THE FONT, SORRY, LOOKS WIERD. i AM A DUFUS FOR HAVING 3 ENTRIES ABOVE, UGH.
"BREECH RELEASE" , I UNDERSTAND.
GREAT CARTRIDGE INFO. I'M INTERESTED IN AN NEI BULLET. YOU GUYS WITH THE RINGTAILS, I ASSUME THEY SHOOT AS WELL OR BETTER THAN A FLAT BASED BALL, OBVIOUSLY MORE AN ACCURATE BULLET REPRODUCTION. WHY USE AN ICE CREAM CARTON WAD? I REALIZE THAT IS STANDARD AS WELL WITH CARTRIDGE USERS. THE WAX MUST AID THE PASSAGE DOWN THE BORE. IF IT IS WHAT I THINK IT IS IT SEEMS RATHER THIN FOR A WAD. FOR MY CARTRIDGES WAY SHORT BETWEEN POWDER AND BULLET I USE TISSUE PAPER FILLER, AWKWARD AND TIME CONSUMING.
YOUR LOADING DOES SEEM A BIT COMPLICATED, BUT I ALSO DO SUCH THINGS IF NEED BE AS WELL.
I"VE SHOT 3FG LOTS IN THE PAST BUT PRIOR TO THE DAYS WHEN I REALLY SOUGHT THE BEST FROM MY CARBINE, IT MUST WORK BEST FOR YOU. I'VE SOME SCHUETZEN 2FG I'VE NOT SHOT YET BUT LOADED IN CARTRIDGES, IT HAD LESS DUST AND FAR FEWER FINES THAN GOEX, WE'LL SEE.
GOOD LUCK WITH THE 45/70.
tHANKS FOR THE REPLY! GREGG

Guest

Post by Guest » Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:47 am

Gregg,

<<WHY USE AN ICE CREAM CARTON WAD?>>

I wanted a barrier between the bullet and the powder to try to keep down lube contamination. That is lube contaminating the powder. I've used just about everything the brass folks use but the ice cream carton was handy during he last loading session. The wax paper "wrap" seems to help also. Just trying to load a cartridge that will survive some time before firing.

When I bought the rifle, in the early 80's, NEI was about the only mold maker with a Sharps bullet. Gave 35 bucks for it. I had looked at the Sellers book and the ring tail was the bullet of choice in '63. To my knowledge NEI was the only one making it. Don't have a clue about any other bullets, this is the only one I've shot. I also use RWS musket caps. Seem to be a little more reliable.

Bob

gmartin
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:55 pm
Location: Boise Id

Ice cream carton wad

Post by gmartin » Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:26 pm

Bob,
I may try this myself as you have explaines it. But I lube my bullets by dipping the completed cartridge in melted lube, thus I'm unsure if I would need such a "perfect" seal. I would assume then you create this by a punch of the correct diameter. I am curious about using felt puched, much in the same fashion. Of course one or several depending upon the space twixt powder and ball. I paste my bullets to the cartridge, and customize the paper to length so as to expose all grease grooves and maintain proper total length for my carbine's chamber, 1 7/8" so far no matter what bullet I,ve used.
My wife was not to blame for the font, I stupidly had the caps locked, sorry 'hon.
Thanks again, Gregg

bwbayless
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 7:22 am
Location: Lebanon, Indian Nations, OK

Post by bwbayless » Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:21 pm

Gregg,

Not looking for a perfect seal just an attempt to slow down the osmosis of the bullet lube. I try to make up several cartridges at once and given enough time the paper will absorb some of the lube. I have used felt wads but not between lube and powder, it would just wick the lube. Not even trying to say it is the only way just my way. I've tried several things and will try several more I sure. It's like everything else in BP, it's there to be tinkered with. I like it! It's slow and takes some time but that's part of the beauty of it. If I ever get it all right then what would I tinker with.

Bob

Todd Birch
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Cartridges for '63 -

Post by Todd Birch » Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:32 am

Everybody has a different approach to our common problem - the care and feeding of the '63.

I like the idea of a 'grease cookie' resulting from pan lubing the ring tail bullet. It can only help reduce fouling or at least keep it soft. Powder contamination is the risk.

Perhaps a thin card wad over a felt wad might be the solution. However, on a hot day, lube migration will eventually affect the felt wad. For cool weather or hunting it might be the answer.

Bob - after a few rounds and my action gets a little stiff to open, I spritz a few drops of cleaning solution between the gas plate and the barrel. Then as part of the cleaning/loading process between shots, I wipe the exposed breech with a patch.

It ought not to surprise us that some of the techniques of loading paper rounds are the same as for brass cartridges. Where do you think they learned them - from '63 shooters!

The only time I had ignition problems was after the flash hole got plugged by lint from the pipe cleaners I was using. Now I use a muzzleloading vent pick to clear it before re-installing the flash hole screw.

I'm using RWS caps and ignition is flawless. I'd be very careful with reaming out the flash hole beyond factory spec. - erosion of the hammer face and pressure loss might result. That gas has got to go somewhere and your eyes might suffer.

Todd
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"

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