Nipples, enlarging the flash hole?

Support for the 1863 shooter. Discussions of powders, loads, bullets, etc.
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JAGG
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Post by JAGG » Tue May 18, 2004 5:18 pm

As i recall there was a problem with some of Cabela's 63's some years back ! You don't open up the nipple you had to open and smooth up the flash channel in the breech block or clean it of metal chips ! Some of the flash channels weren't smooth and were at 90 degree angles etc.! JAGG
JAGG

bwbayless
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Post by bwbayless » Tue May 18, 2004 6:22 pm

Jagg,

Not a Cabela's but a Garrett. Did all the channel clean out etc. It wasn't a bad problem just occasional. The 10 mils or so I opened the nipple up seems to have solved the problem without causing any further problems. So far so good.

Thanks for the response,

Bob

gmartin
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Post by gmartin » Wed May 19, 2004 8:50 pm

Jagg,
Cabelas is Pedersoli even years ago, correct? Why don't the foreign '63 makers' get their collective act together towards these rifles, or have they now? Latest Navy Arms catalog has '59 replicas, including Berdans'. What gives? After all, cap and ball replicas by a whole variety of boot and heel makers seem fine, so says my Uberti Rem. '58.
Gregg

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JAGG
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Post by JAGG » Tue May 25, 2004 11:14 am

BBL ! Garret is Pedersoli ! My lock plate on one of my squirrel rifles is stamped Garret Arms and the barrel is stamped Pedersoli ! I was talking some politics with him last Sat. ! Uberti was at one time the best of the lot of Cap and Ball Arms makers ,but now all i here is problems with many of these replica's from everyone. These 63 sharps carbines and rifles i have never seen make a good group ! I have never owned or fired one but watched others trying to make groups with them ! Yet you will see one of Berdans Snipers with these rifles in Civil War pictures ! So something is going wrong somewhere as i don't think Berdans Sharp shooters would have used these rifles if they didn't hit what they were aiming at ! There were also different ways to seal the breech from gas . One way was a sliding ring in the chamber that moved back on firing to seal the breech ! Some one has to find some way of loading these rifles in some old book or Civil War instruction manual ! JAGG
JAGG

bwbayless
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Post by bwbayless » Tue May 25, 2004 11:33 am

JAGG,

Thanks for the info was not aware of the Garrett/Pedersoli connection. This particular rifle is stamped Palmetto Arms but I understand they went out of bidness for a while then cranked back up with different ownership ( not sure of that). Is there a Palmetto/Pedersoli connection?

Do not have an accuracy, it shoots better than I can hold. Did have a breech leakage problem but have that taken care off. I load with a flat based paper cartridge and so far have not had a problem with that.

Bob

HvyMtl
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Good Groups

Post by HvyMtl » Fri May 28, 2004 8:40 pm

Jagg

Just wanted to let you know, I have a Ped. 1859 Sharps Berdan sniper rifle in 54 cal. paper cartridge. I'm pretty new at BP but learning fast. I don't make paper cartridges at all, I just lower the block drop the bullet in followed by the powder. At 100 yds. my friends using scopes are jealous of this rifle, and i'm not even using the right bullet. I presently use a Lyman Mini, and up to 100 yds. the rifle shoots dead on.

I do have the correct bullet for this rifle, but only one. Nobody seems to know who made it. If anyone is interested I will try my best to measure it.

Ken

Todd Birch
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...loading '63 with loose powder...

Post by Todd Birch » Fri May 28, 2004 9:07 pm

Hey Ken

Kirk Bryant told us on the forum that loading a '59/'63 with loose powder and ball is a sure fire way to accelerate breech face erosion.

For longevity it might be best to start rolling your own. There's been lots of postings on the topic and good info on what works and what don't.

Todd
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"

gmartin
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Post by gmartin » Sat May 29, 2004 10:21 am

Ken,
Very interesting. I found your rifle listed in the newest Navy Arms catolog. What makes it a Berdan? Double Set Triggers, an authentic tang sight? Also, does it as well utilize a sliding bouching? Todd is correct, loose powder and ball(bullet) does the gas seal system no good. I know this by using my Shiloh '63 carbine in such a manner for 24 plus years. Like most of us now, we use a paper cartridge with the bullet inserted, in fact, I competed 30 more this morning to be loaded when I expend others ready to go. See Terry Behm's discourse on an excellent type under "Percusion Sharps Cartridges" (or a simular title) in an earlier post. It is one of many that exist. It IS worth making these things. I shoot a minie as well out of my '63 but still find that a flat based bullet MAY be preferred by my rifle, but your experience is going to lead me to explore my adjustible minie mould more. Am experimenting wth an NEI ring tail design, 2 actually, given to me by a fellow shooter I met on this forum. Also have a paper cartridge design that will fit on this ring I'm anxious to try. You are going to find alot on folks who live for their '63's, and of course '59's as well.
Best, Gregg

gmartin
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Post by gmartin » Sat May 29, 2004 10:35 am

Ken,
That is "Cartridge Making Instructions" on this forum several down, and more are included.
Gregg

bwbayless
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Post by bwbayless » Sun May 30, 2004 5:07 am

HvyMtl,

I kinda interested in the "correct" bullet you have. Could you give us a general description of it? I have 3 different bullets that are supposed to be "correct" for the '63. 2 similar, just different dimensions, NEI ringtails & a Shiloh Buffalo Slug. I have yet to find anything definitive on what is the correct bullet.

Bob

HvyMtl
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correct bullet???

Post by HvyMtl » Sun May 30, 2004 10:27 pm

OK here goes,

Overall length 1.05
Meplat .230 ( Flat nose)
Base of ogive .470
First ring .515
" grease grove .468
2nd. ring .522
" grease grove .468
3rd. ring .530
Base ring used to tie paper cartridge to .498
Overall weight 520 gr.

My Ped. 54 cal. Sharps Berdan sniper rifle's bore dia. is .537, yet when I drop this bullet into it it does not fall through, it stays in the chamber.

One of the other shooters had the same rifle prior to me shooting BP. He sold the gun and everything that went with it. All he had keft was one bullet. It's possible that it was an old Lyman mold, but I haven't been able to find out for sure.

Ken

HvyMtl
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Not using paper cartridge?

Post by HvyMtl » Sun May 30, 2004 11:16 pm

I would not think to question anyones wisdom on a subject that I know little about, but if someone could explain one thing to me, that is if I make paper cartridges when the block comes up and cuts off the end of the cartridge exposing the BP. isn't that the same as pouring the powder in ?

Ken

bwbayless
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Post by bwbayless » Mon May 31, 2004 5:35 am

Ken,

Thanks for sharing the bullet info. I haven't seen that bullet but that does not mean much. There are a lot of things I haven't seen in this game. It's a little small for my rifle but I like the idea of a flat nose.

Far be it of me to tell anyone what is right or wrong about these things. I have shot loose loads, cut offs and the enclosed base rounds. I prefer the enclosed. I have not hunted with it just punched paper. You can see that loose loads would be difficult in the prone position. I've found that cut offs dribble some powder in to the forearm in the lever spring area. It has not caused me any problems but I've read of cases where it has. Enclosed base is just easier for me to deal with albeit a little time consuming to fabricate.

I have a two sided sheet from Shiloh that I have scanned and would be happy to share it with you. It covers the three ways to load and two methods of constructing cartridges. My e-mail is b1bayles@trinex.net just drop me a note, or anyone else that wants it, and I'll be happy to send it.

Later,

Bob

gmartin
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Post by gmartin » Mon May 31, 2004 10:05 am

Ken,
Good information on that bullet. FYI, my cartridges that I use from others and/or "custom" tweaked from theirs, all end up flush with the chamber and are not sheared by the rising breech. Sir, this is the way to go. It takes some experimentation to come up with the correct length of cartridge with bullet inserted to consistently insure this occurs. When done just so I have flawless ignition and the best accuracy I've achieved so far in my carbine. My design is basically that of Terry Behm's and the OAL with the bullets I've shot works well at 1 7/8" A new ring tail bullet will probably be pushed to 2" OAL.
Gregg

HvyMtl
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Learning

Post by HvyMtl » Mon May 31, 2004 10:42 am

OK I posted that question about the shearing off of the paper cartridge being the same as just pouring in the powder before I read the posted articles on making paper cartriges, you know putting the cart before the horse. I will start building my cartridge maker today.

Thanks for the info.

Ken

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