In loading black powder cartridge rounds for the model 1874 you do not leave any air space to prevent high pressure and a possible ring in the barrel. Is the thought the same with paper cartridges, no air space? Do you have to make the cartridge full of powder a little long and push it in untill it clears the block when it is raised. What happens if the rear of the paper cartridge is in to far and there is air space between the block and the cartridge? Do you ever get pressure back out the nipple under any conditions other than to large a nipple hole? As you may guess I am new to the paper cartridge game and am trying to get everything together so I can shoot my 63 carbine with no problems. Whats that old saying about teaching a old dog new tricks?
Frank Costa
OAL of cartridge & air space??
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Frank
- Posts: 287
- Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2002 2:20 pm
- Location: Amador Co., California
OAL of cartridge & air space??
SHILOH 74 #1 SPORTER
SHILOH 63 CARBINE
SHILOH 1
SHILOH SHARPS RIFLE CLUB
TRUE SPORTSMAN CLUB
NRA
SASS
SHILOH 63 CARBINE
SHILOH 1
SHILOH SHARPS RIFLE CLUB
TRUE SPORTSMAN CLUB
NRA
SASS
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Kirk
- Moderator
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Hi Frank, This 63 is all together different than the cartridge black powder. This air space that they are talking of, is the space between the wad and the bullet. I have shot from 30 grains of black to 120 grains of black in the 63's while testing, loose and papered, you can't hurt anything. The only time I have seen air space problems is with a light load of smokeless with a wonder wad packed tight on the powder leaving almost 1 inch air gap to the bullet. The wad is smoking down the case before the bullet ever moves causing that 1 inch of air space to become about .040" air space under a tremendous amount of pressure. This causes it to make a little swaged groove in the chamber causing hard extraction. Hope this helps. Thanks, Kirk
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gmartin
- Posts: 361
- Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:55 pm
- Location: Boise Id
Air Space With '63's.
Frank,
In my younger days with my new '63 carbine I unknowingly did some stupid stuff. Kirk is right, and he would know more than I, that it's hard to damage these very acceptable actions.
My I suggest that you do use a paper cartridge with the bullet inserted, loose loading was how I did it for years, and then a cartridge that was sheared by the block, but I found that a tight cartridge with the flat base at the chamber's beginning worked best for me. And it reduces the number of other variables you may deal with, such as powder loss on loading, etc.
I may be repeating my self but the Shiloh Buffalo Slug with Terry Behm's cartridge design works best with an OAL of 1 7/8 ", and other bullets I have the same. A bullet with a steep ogive such as some recently shot ring tails from NEI used an OAL of 2-2 1/16".
To insure a tight cartridge I use tissue paper as a filler if need be, but I am going to try cornmeal next.
The fun is searching for and finding a combination of cartridge design, bullets, charges, lube, etc. and having them shoot well, or have something intelligent to test.
These are too fun!
Gregg
.0ound that a cartridge
In my younger days with my new '63 carbine I unknowingly did some stupid stuff. Kirk is right, and he would know more than I, that it's hard to damage these very acceptable actions.
My I suggest that you do use a paper cartridge with the bullet inserted, loose loading was how I did it for years, and then a cartridge that was sheared by the block, but I found that a tight cartridge with the flat base at the chamber's beginning worked best for me. And it reduces the number of other variables you may deal with, such as powder loss on loading, etc.
I may be repeating my self but the Shiloh Buffalo Slug with Terry Behm's cartridge design works best with an OAL of 1 7/8 ", and other bullets I have the same. A bullet with a steep ogive such as some recently shot ring tails from NEI used an OAL of 2-2 1/16".
To insure a tight cartridge I use tissue paper as a filler if need be, but I am going to try cornmeal next.
The fun is searching for and finding a combination of cartridge design, bullets, charges, lube, etc. and having them shoot well, or have something intelligent to test.
These are too fun!
Gregg
.0ound that a cartridge
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terry
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 8:49 pm
- Location: Phoenix
Gregg, your getting downright sickingly giddy about these paper cartridge guns!!!! 
Since you've gone off the deep end and I've just returned from a 2 wk vacation and I am in a good mood, I think I will drive you a little crazier. Since you foolishly published your address on this forum, I'm going to send you a few more bullets to test. I have to cast them first but expect a package with some orginal new model bullets (cast in original mould) and some 515 gr. Hoch bullets. Both are pictured with the cartridge making instructions.
Terry Behm
Since you've gone off the deep end and I've just returned from a 2 wk vacation and I am in a good mood, I think I will drive you a little crazier. Since you foolishly published your address on this forum, I'm going to send you a few more bullets to test. I have to cast them first but expect a package with some orginal new model bullets (cast in original mould) and some 515 gr. Hoch bullets. Both are pictured with the cartridge making instructions.
Terry Behm
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gmartin
- Posts: 361
- Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:55 pm
- Location: Boise Id
Terry,
"Sickenly Giddy?" I take no umbrage. And to think I own but one '63! It sits on the table after being cleaned from a long shooting session yesterday, love simply oozing from that big bad beautiful shiny worn piece of artful steel. How's that? Seriously, and I was, my best shooter was still the Shiloh Buffalo Slug, I know I need a bullet that will perform better and an NEI ring tail sent me to try from Bob Bayless did well. I would graciously accept those bullets from you in the hope that they aid my guest for another acceptable, as in accurate and yes historical, in this case, bullet.
Now I'm really Giddy! Gregg
"Sickenly Giddy?" I take no umbrage. And to think I own but one '63! It sits on the table after being cleaned from a long shooting session yesterday, love simply oozing from that big bad beautiful shiny worn piece of artful steel. How's that? Seriously, and I was, my best shooter was still the Shiloh Buffalo Slug, I know I need a bullet that will perform better and an NEI ring tail sent me to try from Bob Bayless did well. I would graciously accept those bullets from you in the hope that they aid my guest for another acceptable, as in accurate and yes historical, in this case, bullet.
Now I'm really Giddy! Gregg