Is it possible or not?

Support for the 1863 shooter. Discussions of powders, loads, bullets, etc.
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HvyMtl
Posts: 256
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Location: Soviet state of New Jersey

Is it possible or not?

Post by HvyMtl » Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:49 pm

I'm new so I have to ask,

If a paper cartridge rifle had a 30"- 34'" heavy barrel and a fast enough twist could it be used for 500yd. + silhouette match. What I mean is I have a very accurate 54 cal. paper cartridge rifle it takes 80 gr. of blackpowder but it does not have a heavy barrel or fast enough twist, so is that some of the only criteria needed?

Ken

bwbayless
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Location: Lebanon, Indian Nations, OK

Post by bwbayless » Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:29 pm

HvyMtl,

I don't know why not. All it's gotta do is shoot 500 yards and it should be able to do that. Try it, you'll like it!

Bob

gmartin
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Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:55 pm
Location: Boise Id

Heavy barrel in a '63.

Post by gmartin » Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:09 pm

Ken,
Boy oh boy, has this ever been discussed amongst my group. like Bob said, Why not? Due to the inevitable variables in regards to the actions of our rifles one might believe it impossible. I, however, am of the opinion that the '59-'65 gas seal system is very accomodating in regard to slight differences in bullet weight, powder charge, etc. The wild card would be that traditional 1 in 48 twist for extreme percussion type accuracy at long range. Might not have a historical precedence.
Gregg

HvyMtl
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Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 6:44 pm
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Historical ?

Post by HvyMtl » Thu Jun 24, 2004 9:00 pm

I'm interested in history as long as it shoots accurately. I mean I like the way the rifles look but if they did'nt shoot good I don't think there would be as much interest in them.

As far as tradition goes, what was the original twists of 1874 sharps. I think you can get them in like, 1 in 16 or 18 now. I would like to know if you take a fast twist heavy barrel put it on a 1859/1863, and at the very least it should shoot midrange.

Ken

Todd Birch
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'63 in 500 yard BPCR

Post by Todd Birch » Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:44 am

The only way to find out if a '63 can hold it's own in a 500 yard BPCR match is to give it a go if the rules allow it.

My '63 is the Military Rifle and it is not drilled and tapped for tang sights. If I put on the same micrometer tang sights as the brass cartridges guys, I have destroyed the historical integrity of the rifle.
The '63 sporters are another matter. We've all seen photos of percussion Sharps rifles so equipped, including the early slant breech models.

The "race gun" mentality has taken over the brass cartridge BPCR game.
It would be a shame for that to happen to the '63s by tinkering with twist rates and other techniques.

It is also theoretically possible to make up a titanium Sharps rifle and chamber it for the hottest rounds imagineable. But to what purpose? How about a BP version of the .50 BMG cartridge with a 750 cast lead bullet?

I'm playing Devil's Advocate here and not trying to stir up a hornet's nest.
In local service rifle matches, the rule of thumb on the honour system is the rifle must be "as issue" to include sights, trigger pull, etc. It sort of levels the playing field and at the end of the day, the best man wins. It isn't an equipment race.
We all know how to tune up a Lee-Enfield, Mauser or Garand and get it to really perform but part of the fun is living with the limitations of the designs.

It would be nice to see one aspect of the game remain ethically and historically "pure". Shooting the '63s "as issue" would be the way to go.
Just an opinion. Anyone else got one?

Todd
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"

gmartin
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Location: Boise Id

1863 Accuracy

Post by gmartin » Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:59 am

OK Todd,
Well put without offending anybody. But, I did find, in the section regarding '74's in Sellers', a rifle built to a customer's satisfaction utilizing a percussion system in its entirety and a very heavy barrel of most certainly not a 1 in 48 twist. Annomalies will occur.
Gregg

HvyMtl
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 6:44 pm
Location: Soviet state of New Jersey

1859/1863 Mid'range

Post by HvyMtl » Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:01 pm

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying I want to enter the arms race. I'm sure the Sharps berdan snipers shot further than two or three hundred yds.

Todd knows alot more than me, maybe the 750 gr. bullet is the answer. When I tried shooting the 1859 with the lyman mini ( 420 gr. ) at 200 yds. I was all over the target. I figured maybe the bullet destabilized, so if I used a heavier bullet maybe that would help. The phantom bullet is 520 gr. with a flat base.

Ken

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