Lawrence priming system removed?

[Ionian]

Hey guys,
I have a question about the 1863 that Shiloh is making. I noticed that there is a block of steel where the Lawrence priming system would have been. When I order my rifle, can I ask to have this removed? I know that the rifle looks more authentic with it in place, but it's only a block of steel and it serves no purpose.
Thanks.

[gmartin]

Ionian,
If you had that done it would look much like the '63 as manufactured by IAB., ugly. If you would like a replica pellet priming system so as to have a purpose for that steel, check out rifles from Pedersoli and others. At least Pedersoli used to have them. Respectfully, this provides the distinctive look that defines this classic action, and Shiloh's is a real winner.
Gregg

[Retired Bucktail]

Or, you could install an original Sharps lock.

That's what I had done, back about 1986. I found a mint original (complete, less hammer) lock for $100.00 at a gun show. The hammer was less than mint, for about $30.00.

Those were the days.....

[Todd Birch]

Ionian

Some Farmingdale-made "Union" and "Confederate" carbines were made without the primer 'hump'. I just bought one and have heard from another fellow with one.
The seller sent me excellent pics of the carbine and I'll forward them to anyone who sends me a pm.

When the Brits tested the '55 slant breech, they were less than impressed with the Maynard primer feed mechanisms and removed them.
One of the mods suggested by Col. Burton RA on the later '59 tested was
also to remove the Lawrence primer feed, so such a gun is historically correct.

[1stregtengr]

Is this what the primers looked like for the Lawrence system?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... m=93651429

[Todd Birch]

1stregtengr

Yep, that's them! I've only seen one other picture of them and it didn't show the stick you see in the one you posted. I think I counted 21 primers in the photo, and some historical accounts say more were available. I guess that means there was another way of inserting them into the magazine.

From what Ive read, it wasn't the primers that the Brits objected to, it was the adjustment of the feed mechanism which they felt was beyond the capabilities of the average soldier. It does look like it could go out of order PDQ under rough field conditions.

My 'new' Farmingdale carbine without the 'hump' didn't arrive this week as expected. Earliest possible date now is Tuesday.

[Retired Bucktail]

The original Sharps lock and hammer in my Farmingdale Shiloh Sharps:

[Todd Birch]

Retired Bucktail

Now, that's class! So much better than that useless lump of metal on the modern '63s. Thanks for the education. What a great addition to your rifle.

I'm looking at the original patent drawing while looking at the pictures ....
I presume that the primer discs were inserted from the rear and the piston spring (visible in your pics) shoves them up one at a time to be caught by the hammer.

I also notice the mortice grooves in the hammer to make the mechanism function. The patent drawing shows a 'shut off' to disable the feed and allow the hand seating of a musket cap. Is that what we see at the rear of the assembly?

It would add considerably to the cost, but what it would do for Shiloh to offer this as a feature!

[Retired Bucktail]

The tube containing the discs was inserted at the top, by sliding back the top cover. Once inserted, a spring mounted follower was depressed; that's what fed the pellets upwards.

The cut-off switch is the small knob visible behind that "thumb cut-out" in the lefthand view (the first image). Pushed forward (as in the pic), the primers are blocked so that musket caps can be used. When pushed back (toward the shooter), the follower and discs are free to move up.

Gotta go to work now as I'm already late! I'll catch up later.

[Todd Birch]

Retired Bucktail

Where have you been all these years we '63 shooters have struggling in the dark trying to understand the pictures in Seller's book and what was absent on our rifles?
I've got a patent drawing, but not the description that accompanies such a schematic. Mind you, I never did research it, so I can't complain too much.

I've learned more from your posts and pics than I have from any other source since becoming a '63 owner and shooter. Thanks a million!

[Randall]

If I'm not mistaken all of the Garrett percussion Sharps have a funtional pellet primer system on them and I think that they will work on the Shilohs. If you have a chance look at the system on the Garrett...they are quite detailed. I always thought that it would be nice to find some pellet primers to try out in them.

[Retired Bucktail]

As I've posted elsewhere, a reenactor friend with a Berdan Sharpshooters group once made functional pellet primers and I had a tube.

I used them for display for awhile then I decided to try them in a skirmish drill. They worked well, but I didn't try them with a powder charge so I don't know if they were 'hot' enough to ignite it.

Here's a pic of a tube of primers:



The top cover of the pellet system is opened by placing the thumb on the top screw and sliding the cover back.

The brass tube is inserted in the top and the primers are fed into the system by moving the small wood block down. When the primers are in, the brass tube and it's wood components are discarded. The cut-off is slid forward and then the cover is closed.

If the primers are to be used, the cut-off is moved back (allowing the primers to feed). When the hammer is cocked and released, the primers are fed upwards and then caught by the hammer as it falls on the cone, causing ignition.

If standard caps are to be used, the cut-off is slid forward (blocking the primers).

[Todd Birch]

Wonderful stuff! I'm getting a 'clean' (minus the primer hump) '63 Farmingdale carbine in the mail next week.
It would take some fitting and machining, but if the Garrett device is available and can be retrofitted to a Shiloh, it would add a lot.

This would seem to be the next step in raising the bar of Shiloh '63s - but, the market would have to be there.

Are there enough wanna-be "SharpsShooters" and skirmishers out there to justify the investment?